Kevin's Watch

Actually, you can piss off a few West Coast Liberals as well (I know - "BONUS!").

NASCAR is one of the most intense team sports there is - I should know, I grew up watching my Dad run Stock. I will agree that alot of NASCAR "fans" are idiots who give the impression that the only thing to watch for are the wrecks, but there are plenty of Hockey "fans" who will act like the only thing good about the sport are the fights.

Both sports actually require you to know what you're watching for - it took me years to learn not to just watch the puck in Hockey, and just following the leader around the track in NASCAR is pretty boring and stupid as well, I'd imagine.

Please. NASCAR uses template bodies and engines with circa 1950's state-of-the-art technology to run in circles.

It's the equivalent of pro wrestling with good guys and bad guys, and the races are fixed (don't tell me you didn't find it a bit fishy when Little E won on the anniversary of Big E's death).

You want to talk about intense team sports in the world of racing, watch all 24 Heurs du LeMans. You know, racing with different cars that can turn right and go up and down hills.

Who'da thunk it.....a Lefty NASCAR fan....

Actually, the tech on those cars had advanced beyond the 50's in, well, the 50's - and continues to do so. As for the cars being pretty much identical: Yes there are stringent specs, which were initiated to keep the cars fairly competitive with each other, and safe. That said, as with any racing, there's an incredible amount a talented team can do for their car within those specs, and it depends on weather, track, the day, the last couple of races, the driver, etc, etc, etc,...

As I said, it's a team sport - and more so than most other types of racing. And, while this Leftie appreciates the lack of right turns (that's a joke, y'all), there are a few tracks that have both hills and turns in both directions (watch the SanFran races - you won't be disappointed).

I've gotta be amazed that someone who remains skeptical about Voting Conspiracies would abandon that skepticism over one race in NASCAR - Jr's winning races all over the place, and making the change from just another hotshoe to a fairly classy driver (unlike that whiney lil' Gordon bitch - or his father.).

And yes, I also love LeMans - as well as F1, CART, etc. (my absolute fave is Rally!) - but this Leftie was raised on Stockcar Racing, and one of my best days ever was the day I got to go down to a local Shop, and listen to my Dad crackerbarrel it for around 4 hours with a bunch of old drivers, builders, owners, and pit guys. There's a lot more going on than wrecks, left turns, and rednecks - like any sport, you've just got to know enough about it to really appreciate it.

Pliss, they're not even fuel injected.

And calling NASCAR "stock car" racing is a stretch PlasticMan couldn't do.

It was back then, too.

And so what? Nearly every type of racing has rules about equipment, bit it doesn't mean it's not "real" racing -- it just means that them's the rules.

How can anything be a sport when machines do 90% of the actual work?

Uh...the machines don't build and repair and drive themselves.

The only real problem I have with auto-racing of anykind is the complete waste of fuel.

How many hundreds of gallons of fuel are burned in one race? What about in the warm-ups, practicing, and qualifying?

This goes for stock-cars; indy cars (and the like) drag racing, truck pulls, monster trucks, moto-cross and whatever else.

bomber jets? movies? R&D?

I definitley LOVE World Rally Championship, and my favorite computer games are racing ones, off road and street racing, but playing NASCAR on my computer is actually more boring than watching it! haha

Racing is a sport, but friggin Backgammon? come on people!

I didn't think people still played backgammon...it looks confusing.

More partial to Chisese Checkers myself -But I hope they don't start televising it.

Esmer wrote:

Professional Dominoes on ESPN2 wrote:What's next, All Star Cribbage?

the first point, and post, of the thread, Earl, they will....

Racing is not a sport. For starters it's unbelievably exclusionary and secondly the only real marvel is the machine and if they want to hand out medals for who can build the best car then fine-but it doesn't make it a sport.

At best it can only be classified as some sort of secondary sport.

To clarify I dont consider many things to be sports. Both codes of rugby, footy, soccer, cricket, American football, baseball, ice hockey, basketball and some martial arts. Athletics gets in on a technicality.

Everything else is just a game or glorified BS.

Marvin The Magnificent wrote:Racing is not a sport. For starters it's unbelievably exclusionary and secondly the only real marvel is the machine and if they want to hand out medals for who can build the best car then fine-but it doesn't make it a sport.

At best it can only be classified as some sort of secondary sport.

To clarify I dont consider many things to be sports. Both codes of rugby, footy, soccer, cricket, American football, baseball, ice hockey, basketball and some martial arts. Athletics gets in on a technicality.

Everything else is just a game or glorified BS.

We used to have a word for this - "igni-int," I believe. The day you can hold a corner at 200+ MPH, in Talladega heat, and make coherent decisions about anything other than getting the hell out of the car, you can come talk to me about what a "sport" is. As for exclusionary - some of the most piss-poor bastards you've ever seen have been included in racing, for the ability to do what I've described.

igni-int?

I didn't say talent wasn't involved but just because something isn't easy doesn't make it a sport.

Driving in a race, even NASCAR, is incredibly physically challenging. I've raced both cars and motorcycles, and it's exhausting.

You know, if racing isn't a sport than neither is the less physically demanding marathon running. In fact, if the competitive activity you're engaged in doesn't cause you to lose more than 5-15 lbs in the course of the event, I guess it can't be considered a sport either.

drew wrote:Poker?
(all of these CAN be done while eating a sandwich)

Interesting bit of trivia for you: The sandwich was (allegedly) named after The Earl of Sandwich, who instructed a butler of his to place meat between two slices of bread, so that he didn't have to leave the poker table to eat.

Plissken wrote:You know, if racing isn't a sport than neither is the less physically demanding marathon running. In fact, if the competitive activity you're engaged in doesn't cause you to lose more than 5-15 lbs in the course of the event, I guess it can't be considered a sport either.

Marathon running is less physically demanding? Ha! I'd take up the challenge against any racing driver you care to mention.

You'd lose. I'm not disparaging runners - they are amazing athletes. By your argument, however, their shoes are doing all the work.

Plissken wrote:You'd lose. I'm not disparaging runners - they are amazing athletes. By your argument, however, their shoes are doing all the work.

Don't be facetious.

I'd lose? In a running race? not a chance.

I can sense that this debate is running in to a dead-end fast. heh.

Do you deny, however, that the competition is very asymmetric because there is such a huge benifit to the driver with the best car? If so, it leads me to believe that the difference, often, is made by the car and not the skill of the driver.

Marvin The Magnificent wrote:

Plissken wrote:You'd lose. I'm not disparaging runners - they are amazing athletes. By your argument, however, their shoes are doing all the work.

Don't be facetious.

I'd lose? In a running race? not a chance.

I can sense that this debate is running in to a dead-end fast. heh.

Do you deny, however, that the competition is very asymmetric because there is such a huge benifit to the driver with the best car? If so, it leads me to believe that the difference, often, is made by the car and not the skill of the driver.

Again, the cars are regulated so that the competition is between drivers and teams, not who's got the most lucrative sponsorhip. (See: Cail's complaint.)

And I didn't mean to be facetious about runners - but there have been comparisions between what various athlete's bodies go through during their competions, and drivers (and riders - Motocross is actually the most physically demanding sport) are near the top for endurance requirements.

So yeah, you might beat them in a footrace (I don't know your background, but you sound confident of your abilities), just as you might beat a linebacker or point guard - but that doesn't mean that they aren't athletes.