Kevin's Watch

Elfy, in this country, many of the children abused are very young. We're talking preschoolers here...

drew wrote: I'm assuming that everyone is avoiding the answer for the same reason I'm asking it...they don't know! Or they want to avoid thinking about it.

I think the problem is there is no specific answer. I would suggest that if there is a weapon involved, that they go with the flow, yet always look for possible escape. If there is no weapon involved then try to fight and also look for possible escape. Also, there is a variable on the age and size of the child. A very young child is not likely to be able to fight anyone off or understand how to look for a way to escape. An older child it would be different. Also, the personality and temperment of the child is another element. You can give them ideas of what to do, but you might be amazed at the resourcefulness a child can come up with. This does not guarantee that they will not suffer abuse, but they may very well avoid death. Afterward, all you can do is love them and support thier recovery. I recommend a book, it is a bit... overly paranoid, but still very good. It's called "Protecting the Gift." It may give you some answers you are searching for.

the aclu supports child molesters and no one really supports mad dogs?

Good posts folks. Agree with Duchess' source there...teach them to gouge eyes. *shudder*

Anyway, I agree with Prebe about the likelihood of harsher punishments stopping it though Elfgirl. And of course, I have to ask how exactly you'd fit the punishment to the crime? Have them raped?

Finally though Prebe, I must ask for a little clarity...you do think it may be at least partly genetic? Or you don't think it is genetic at all?

(This raises another interesting point in itself I think, but more on that later. )

--A

Topic split. Let's try to stay on subject.

drew wrote:But that's what I'm wondering about...not how to avoid being nabbed, I want to tell my kids what to do if they are nabbed. What to do if they are being asaulted.

Is there anything to tell them?

Drew, here's the link I posted in my first reply in this thread that offers some suggestions.

Stranger Danger

Looking through the thread and seeing few real attempts to answer Drew's question, I thought I'd give a shot at it.

Assuming my son (who will be 4 in Nov.) was picked up by someone (fact is, it's far more likely that a kid will be abused by somebody they know and trust... should we address that now or in another thread?)... let's also assume it's a few years from now when he could really have any kind of ability to process what happened or any response to it...

'It's not your fault. What happened doesn't say anything about you, no more than if somebody knocked you down at the park and you hurt your arm. I know it hurts, hurts to think about it. It probably seems like the whole world is suddenly a strange, mean place. I won't lie to you; it can be a strange, mean place. It usually isn't, though, and you have people that love you and will take care of you. And there are a lot of things you can learn to help you protect yourself in the future. We can learn them together.

'That guy, yeah, I'm very mad at him. You can be, too. We'll have to let it go, eventually, though we'll never quite forget it. The policemen and the judge should make sure that he's punished for hurting you and make sure that he won't hurt anyone else again. If they don't, though, don't worry. We won't let it happen again. When you're older, if you want, I'll help you learn how to keep other people safe from people like that.

'Now let's go get some icecream on the way to the psychiatrist's office.'

Of course, it won't be so short or simple. Similar conversations, perhaps with new themes, but the message of love and understanding repeated for as long as it takes. No lies. No empty promises. And I imagine you have to walk a very thin line between dwelling on it too much and ignoring it. Pay attention to the kid, talk to him (or her), but give him some space too. Get him involved in new activities that he's comfortable with. Try not to drown your own feelings of guilt and anger with alcohol?

Funny, I'm sitting here looking back on my own feelings about my past. I was never sexually abused, not in any major sense, but my mom did have a boyfriend for several years who had a violent temper that would express itself physically and verbally (usually against my mother, but my brother and I weren't off limits either) as well as a sufficient cruel streak at the best of times.

No one ever talked to me or my brother about it. Sure, they talked about it usually in such disparaging tones that it wasn't of much use to us, but other than asking us if we were ok (what the hell are we supposed to say, "No, I'm damaged for life"?)... nothing. Same thing with my mother's lifestyle (drugs, boyfriends, new towns every year or so, etc.). Sure, my family would put her down all day, but they never really checked to see how my brother and I were dealing with it. I guess I managed to deal with it well enough on my own. So has my brother (five years younger... the last time I saw that one guy I was 13), in his way. But I think it would've made a huge difference if somebody had actually talked to us, especially my bro, who I love dearly but has a lot of issues to this day.

*sigh* I need a beer. Stupid working weekend.

Menolly's link did shed some light on what to say (or teach).

The Thumbnail would be; try to stay on the perpetrator's good side...while avoiding eye contact, or even face contact at all times.

I agree with what Syl said about most cases of abuse being from someone the children know (and usually know well) and goes on for periods of times; but it was the "Parents Wrost Nightmare" scenerio that I was spesifically wondering about wondering about--the one that relates to the link in the openeing thread.

Again Menolly's last link included some tips aimed at children for what to do if they find themselves in that kind of situation.

I think that kind of thing is as important to teach our children as teaching them to stay out of dangerous situations.

Like stated earlier, though most preditors will try to lure children in using different techniques...there's still the odd one who may just grab a kid; tie them up nd escape before anyone has a chance to do anything; so learing how to get out of that situation, I fell is pretty darned important.
.

the problem is that the snatch and grab predator is commonly someone who escalated to that point. he starts out with pics & stories, may move to molestation and then at some point later grabs the kid. so locking them up forever would at least stop that repeat offender.

I found this interesting...

www.meganslaw.ca.gov/facts.htm

My daughter is 11. She takes karate, and is very good at it. We've had a rash of child abductions in the area, and the kid usually ends up dead. The case a few months ago....can't remember the girl's name, but they found her buried behind the abductor's trailer....The girl looked just like my daughter, to the point that people called my at work to ask if I knew where she was.

Anyway, I've told her to stay away from strangers, and under no circumstances go anywhere with them, no matter what their story is. If she gets grabbed, I've made it very clear to her that she needs to do whatever she can to get away. Hurt him as badly as she can, and scream, "RAPE!" as loudly as she can.

But scarier to me is the person she knows. When I went through the hell with my stepfather last year, that really woke me up to the distinct possibility that there were preadators in some of the homes she goes to with her friends. I've become much more dilligent in checking out her friend's parents, as well as their older siblings.

Cail wrote:

www.meganslaw.ca.gov/facts.htm

Anyway, I've told her to stay away from strangers, and under no circumstances go anywhere with them, no matter what their story is. If she gets grabbed, I've made it very clear to her that she needs to do whatever she can to get away. Hurt him as badly as she can, and scream, "RAPE!" as loudly as she can.

All good advice, up to the yelling RAPE part. I remember hearing the only effective scream that tends to get results is yelling "FIRE!", no matter what the circumstnaces. IIRC, the point was made that people 'don't want to get involved in an attack, but will at least look at what's happening when they hear "FIRE!"

Really? I guess that makes sense. I shall modify my instructions.

Cail wrote: If she gets grabbed, I've made it very clear to her that she needs to do whatever she can to get away. Hurt him as badly as she can, and scream, "RAPE!" as loudly as she can.

Yeah, definitely make a scene and try to run. My grandfather, who knows a lot about being abducted/captured tells me that the best time to make an escape is the moment they take you; if you let them get you in that car or in any way comply, chances are very high you're not going to make it out of the situation alive.

I've heard that too. Apparently most people who try to snatch and grab are counting on surprise to get their victim. Most are unprepared for a victim who turns and fights them.

But yeah, once you get into their car or house, chances are you're done for.

Menolly wrote:

Cail wrote:

www.meganslaw.ca.gov/facts.htm

Anyway, I've told her to stay away from strangers, and under no circumstances go anywhere with them, no matter what their story is. If she gets grabbed, I've made it very clear to her that she needs to do whatever she can to get away. Hurt him as badly as she can, and scream, "RAPE!" as loudly as she can.

All good advice, up to the yelling RAPE part. I remember hearing the only effective scream that tends to get results is yelling "FIRE!", no matter what the circumstnaces. IIRC, the point was made that people 'don't want to get involved in an attack, but will at least look at what's happening when they hear "FIRE!"

You could always start screaming "TERRORIST"...that would work these days!

remember, children belong in packs.

sgtnull wrote:remember, children belong in packs.

Yes, but then you get the accusations of them becoming 'gangs...'

Maybe we should get a bunch of kids to become a vigilante 'gang', round up the pedophiles and give them a taste of street justice....

That would help.....Maybe the fear of a public lynching or dismemberment would stop them.