Kevins Dirt...

[High Lord Tolkien]

I still like the idea that Kevin's Dirt is a *positive* thing that keeps the people of the Land (and others) communicating with the Dead.

There must be some kind of danger about that (that I have no idea about) that the Dirt is protecting people from.

[wayfriend]

TC saw his Dead in TWL, and he had no health sense whatsoever. So how does Kevin's Dirt come into play with respect to seeing the Dead?

[High Lord Tolkien]

Maybe it doesn't inhibit the living but rather the Dead?
The inhibiting of Health Sense on the living is just a side effect?

[Krilly]

Whatever it is, it's no coincidence that Linden's greatest strength is health sense, and that is exactly what the Dirt affects.

Looking back at the other books there's always some sort of "something" Lord Foul makes sure is affecting the main character's power. Only this way can he achieve his goals.

What sort of horrible things might Linden unwittingly accomplish with white gold, the staff of law, yet no health sense?

As far as the Dirt's origins... I'm sure Lord Foul tinkered here and there to make it happen but, as he mentions in Runes, he's sort of taken a back seat and let this new predicament unfold and it's probably something else causing it directly. Who would have motivation to suppress peoples' health sense? The Elohim?

[Xar]

Whatever it is, it's no coincidence that Linden's greatest strength is health sense, and that is exactly what the Dirt affects.

Looking back at the other books there's always some sort of "something" Lord Foul makes sure is affecting the main character's power. Only this way can he achieve his goals.

What sort of horrible things might Linden unwittingly accomplish with white gold, the staff of law, yet no health sense?

As far as the Dirt's origins... I'm sure Lord Foul tinkered here and there to make it happen but, as he mentions in Runes, he's sort of taken a back seat and let this new predicament unfold and it's probably something else causing it directly. Who would have motivation to suppress peoples' health sense? The Elohim?

I wouldn't think so, the Elohim who visited the Stonedown complained with the Masters that they had caused the Stonedownors to forget... so I would assume the Elohim, by and large, didn't cause Kevin's Dirt. Of course, though, it could still be Kastenessen, for example - one might wonder whether the skurj which seem to be related to him might profit from this lack of health-sense.
The intriguing point is how neatly does Kevin's Dirt fall in with the Masters and their self-appointed task... is it just a coincidence the Masters exploited to consolidate their rule of the Land, or did they know Kevin's Dirt was coming?

[Avatar]

The GI thread has a post that might bear on this...SRD said it's not their doing, anyway.

--A

[wayfriend]

Whatever it is, it's no coincidence that Linden's greatest strength is health sense, and that is exactly what the Dirt affects.

Looking back at the other books there's always some sort of "something" Lord Foul makes sure is affecting the main character's power. Only this way can he achieve his goals.

And yet, if the Dirt is directed at Linden, it has failed. With the Staff, she can void the effects of the Dirt.

I doubt that this represents a mistake on Foul's part. If only because it wouldn't be much of a series if Foul was thwarted so easily, so soon.

Therefore, it has to be something else.

If it's not the Masters, and it's not Foul, and it's not the Elohim, who does that leave?

The Mahdoubt, of course.

[Zarathustra]

It is interesting that KD affects Linden's greatest strength (her healthsense), and it coincides with the Masters' purpose.

The characters are always the most important thing in Donaldson's stories. We can't ignore that the state of the world is a reflection of the characters' inner (and while in the Land, outer) struggle. So how does this help us in determining what it is? I don't know. I think we've all suspected at one time or another that it was Linden's fault somehow--by either going back to get the Staff, or some flaw when she made the Staff to begin with.

Why does it only affect the Land? Like the Sunbane, it seems to come from the earth itself, and that's why it has an upper limit. You can climb above it. But I thought Donaldson claimed it wasn't perverted earthpower like the Sunbane was.

[Ur Dead]

Maybe Foul cause the dirt indirectly. In TOT, TC claimed that Foul got to the Elohim before he reached the island.

Also we tend to forget that Kevin fought two battles, one with Foul and the other with his summoner. So even being dead, he had power.

Remember Foul will only use his personal power only if he has to. He usually tricks others to do his bidding.
In Runes he saids he has dropped suggestions, here and there. He may not be the one who caused it to spring up. But he was the prime mover for it's cause.

[Stutty]

We can't ignore that the state of the world is a reflection of the characters' inner (and while in the Land, outer) struggle. So how does this help us in determining what it is?

Immediately Jerimiah popped into my head.

Could Kevin's dirt have something to do with his autism? Perhaps the inability to establish emotional connections with people? I can see sort of a parrallelism there. Disconnected from people, Land people disconnected from the land...

Now if there's just some way to blame the dirt directly on the brat we're set.

stutt

[Usivius]

Kevin's Dirt's greatest harm is ita ability to take away EVERYONE'S health sense. This makes everyone blind to the absolute beauty of the Land.
It was something that pulled someone as jaded and self absorbed as TC into wanting to do everything he could to save it.
Now taht everyone is blind, it makes them ripe targets for the MASTERS to come along and dominate.
Do you think anyone would have stood for that if they had health sense? No way! there would haev been an uprising.

I bet you that some of the hurtful whispering that Foul has hinted at have been directed at the Haruchai ... pushing them to be The Masters!...

I got $5 Canadian dollars on that one...

[Stutty]

The things about the actions of the Haruchi though, is that I think in the grand scheme of things they just don't matter. At the horserite, the Ranyhym don't denounce or decry the actions of the sleepless ones; they laugh at them. It struck me as a laughter like at the folly of a child. Certainly not doing any good, but pointless enough not to do real damage either.

To the Ranyhym, the Haruchi are just a harmless, puissanceless joke.

stut

[Usivius]

but it's about perspective. The Masters are not 'harming' the people of the land, so there might not be a perceived danger to them. To a certain extent, we the readers have a wider sence of perspective than many of the characters do...

[emotional leper]

We can't ignore that the state of the world is a reflection of the characters' inner (and while in the Land, outer) struggle. So how does this help us in determining what it is?

Immediately Jerimiah popped into my head.

Could Kevin's dirt have something to do with his autism? Perhaps the inability to establish emotional connections with people? I can see sort of a parrallelism there. Disconnected from people, Land people disconnected from the land...

Now if there's just some way to blame the dirt directly on the brat we're set.

stutt

That's a good idea. the Caesures roughly co-incide with Joan getting her ring back -- When exactly did Linden adopt Jerimiah? Something says that the adoption coincides with the Dirt appearing in the land.

[Brinn]

All of your theories are very interesting but I have to bring up what I believe is the more important angle on this subject...Why call it Kevin's "Dirt"??? The name grates on my sensibilities. It seems almost juvenile and a little too pedestrian for SRD. If you're going to call it "Kevin's Dirt" why not just call it "Kevin's stuff that blinds your health sense"?!?!

I wish SRD could have come up with a more ominous appelation like "Kevin's Stain" or "Kevin's Shroud" or "Kevin's Pall". Anything but Kevin's "DIRT"!!!

Sorry. <Rant over>

[emotional leper]

Because kicking dirt in someone's eyes is a means of gaining advantage in a fight, because it makes them unable to see.

[wayfriend]

Well, I half agree with that. "Dirt" seems to refer to something that "gets in your eyes", anyway.

It's not the coolest name I could have imagined. Maybe further into the story there'll be an "aha!" moment, and it'll all make sense. Or maybe, like "Masters", it's just a name he went with for lack of anything better.

I would purely speculate that pall, shroud, or stain did not resonate with the author in the way he intended ... but Dirt does. What does that mean? I'm guessing that those others are not mysterious enough. And perhaps that they are limiting in some way.

Was Dirt chosen to tie it into Desecration? dirt - > earth -> The Earth -> The Dessecration of the Earth?

[emotional leper]

Dirt covers the Earth? Just as Kevin's Dirt does?

I wonder if it extends beyond the Land. There is a definite elevation matter, if I recall correctly from Runes. I wonder if the Dirt is similarly bound as the Sunbane was. I recall that the Ramen were unaffected by it, until they ventured back into the Land. Why should both the Sunbane and the Dirt have the same Area of Effect, if they do>?

[Relayer]

That's a good idea. the Caesures roughly co-incide with Joan getting her ring back -- When exactly did Linden adopt Jerimiah? Something says that the adoption coincides with the Dirt appearing in the land.

Didn't it take her about 2 years to go thru the adoption proceedings? So that'd be roughly 8 years, which would be 2400 years in the Land.

edit to reply to other posts:

It is interesting that KD seems to affect the same areas as the Sunbane. If so, I'm sure it's not a coincidence. IIRC, the Sunbane didn't affect the top of Kevin's Watch when TC and LA first got there in TWL... the rain clouds were beneath them, just as the Dirt was.

I don't really like the name either... but remember that the Haruchai named it "because it carries the foretaste of desecration." They may have other recollections of Kevin that would make this make sense.

[Anele]

Somehow the Masters are being unwittingly duped by Lord Foul, and they are somehow connected with the cause of KD.
Somehow they have helped corrupt earthpower.