Kevin's Watch

Tjol wrote:

SoulQuest1970 wrote:Yes, especially with deaths. *sigh*

Death can be kind, much as we never want to see him paying our loved ones a visit.

Yes and no. The dream I had at 14 of my 16 year old cousin dying was not especially fabulous. I found out the next day he died at the exact moment I woke up from the dream. He was killed by a drunk driver. The recurring dreams of a baby girl dying while I was pregnant were horrific. I also knew something was going to happen to someone on my husband's side of the family on July 6th. I did not think the two were connected. I thought Alex was going to die by drowning (the dream it was water). I was overly protective of Alex. That July 6th (1995) came and went and nothing happened. On July 6th 1996 my niece drown in the bathtub. She was 13 mos old and 3 weeks older than Alex. Niece on my husband's side of the family.

The one of my grandfather was nice. He had cancer and was getting alternative treatments and as a side effect had a heart attack. He went real peaceful and it was actually a nice dream.

I had a pretty young friend die from cancer in his mid thirties. Seeing what it was doing to his flesh, even if his soul was stronger than that, the only thing that could have been a kinder fate is if the cancer had never come back in the first place. There is some tragedy in that he died well short of what most people would take for granted, but there is also a large amount of mercy that was given in his physical deterioration and suffering coming to an end.

Only thing somewhat on topic about that, is that I called him at the hospital one day to see if he was up for visitors, and ended up leaving a message. He died later that day, and his father recalled my being there when he passed, although I regrettably was not. It was very awkward when someone related my being there back to me, given that I had wanted to be, but that I also knew I hadn't been. (edit) No regret mind you, I did spend some time talking with him about sports, which was what we'd always talked about, the last time I saw him, which was really all he wanted, to remember the last few days as if they weren't coming to an end.

[quote="Avatar"]Welcome to the Watch KiGirl. It amazes me what motivates people to finally sign up and post...and creeps me out a little to think of all the invisible eavesdroppers on our conversations.

Thank you, Avatar. I should've signed up sooner.

A close friend of mine was with me one night and we were spinning playing cards into a basket to see how many we could get into it.
Nearly every time I collected the cards - the ace and nine of spades always seemed to land face up and in the basket, she noticed it as well, and we shared an eerie look. She died soon after.

Maybe it was a warning!



I don't play the game anymore.

KiGirl wrote:

Avatar wrote:Welcome to the Watch KiGirl. It amazes me what motivates people to finally sign up and post...and creeps me out a little to think of all the invisible eavesdroppers on our conversations.

Thank you, Avatar. I should've signed up sooner.

Yes you should have. Well, start making up for lost time.

--A

Andromeda wrote:A close friend of mine was with me one night and we were spinning playing cards into a basket to see how many we could get into it.
Nearly every time I collected the cards - the ace and nine of spades always seemed to land face up and in the basket, she noticed it as well, and we shared an eerie look. She died soon after.

Maybe it was a warning!



I don't play the game anymore.

sh*t. i wouldn't either.

I've mentioned how I'll have certain dreams that I know are prophetic while I'm dreaming them. They are more real, more vivid, and I know they're going to come true. I know it's one of "those" dreams.

Well, the night before last (the night before the bridge collapse in Minneapolis), I dreamed that I was riding in a car with two other people. We were riding near a very large body of water. I thought it was a lake at first, but it wasn't shaped like a lake. It was thin and long like a river. As we approached it, I saw a manmade structure collapse. I thought it was a dam, but I could only see the top of it, a long ribbon of human construction. As it collapsed, I knew instantly that it was due to human error or negligence. This wasn't something natural like an earthquake. Then the water came. It was like a flood. It came so fast, that I knew we weren't going to make it. I was telling the people in the front seat of the car to roll the windows down so we could swim out. But it was too late. We were under a lot of water. I knew that this was my time to die.

That was the first dream. Later that night I had another "flood" dream, except this one happened at my house. That's not especially relevant, except that while dreaming it, I remembered having the previous dream, and remembered thinking that that dream was prophetic. I thought that this flood happening at my house was the disaster the first dream was warning me about. It was like a reminder dream, not to forget the first one.

Anyway, the two dreams combined left enough of an impression on me that I couldn't sleep. I tossed and turned for an hour or more. The next day I had to tell my wife, I was so bothered by it. And then hours later I learned that more than 50 cars went into the water due to a collapse of a human structure (probably due to human error or negligence). So this bridge collapse is kind of freaking me out.

My mother used to have the exact same experience: dreaming very specific disasters that shortly thereafter came true for others. I always thought she was full of crap until this started happening to me more and more.

Damm!

Malik:
If you have dreams like that often, I can't blame you for searching for something larger. Not religion, I know. I was thinking about your devotion to the stranger bits of reality, philosophy, consciousness etc.

That experience certainly sounds eerie.

I wouldn't call my interests a "devotion." But I certainly study some weird stuff. I'm a fan of Robert Anton Wilson. I believe Bell's Theorem is one of the most under-appreciated bits of science in history. I have had experiences on fungi that made me believe that a "higher reality" does indeed exist, and that it's possible to communicate with beings from that reality. Yes, that's right.

At the same time, I don't believe in the supernatural, the soul, or heaven. I think there is a scientific explanation for all the weird stuff that's happened to me, even if it's coincidence or hallucination. I'm not ruling that out. But I'm also not ruling out a more outrageous explanation simply because it's unconventional.

The next time you have a prophetic dream, ask for guidance while within the dream. Because although prophetic dreams are specific as to what will happen, it is up to the dreamer to enquire as to where, when, and to whom. You should also look into lucid dreaming techniques, being aware that the philosophy underlying the practice is less important than the technique itself.

I've explored lucid dreaming. I'm not able to do it at will. But these "prophetic" dreams are almost always lucid, or nearly so. They have that vivid quality, and I know that I am dreaming while it's happening. But either I don't try to control it, or I can't control it--which is one of the distinguishing features of lucid dreaming. Most of the time, these dreams are so emotionally powerful, that even though I know I'm dreaming, I just go with it.

But your suggestions are good ideas.

Another very freaky dream I've had concerned Mars. It was during the time when one or several of our Martian probes had crash landed (sometime during 2000?). Anyway, the official explanation was that some engineers had used the metric system, while others had used the standard English measurement system, causing things to be miscalculated in the design phase. Now, that in itself sounds damn fishy. What scientist or engineer on the planet doesn't use the metric system? That is standard worldwide for this profession.

Anyway, in my dream, I was "told" that the failed probes didn't really fail--that was just a cover story to hide evidence of aliens found on the planet. Yes, I know, that sounds crazy. I thought so, too. But then I was "told" a specific, numeric fact which I could check once I woke up to convince myself that this was real. That fact was: the distance between Earth and Jupiter is ten times the distance between Mars and Earth .

Pretty straightforward. Nice round, even number. I didn't even give it much thought because it was so corny, and suspiciously anthropomorphic (since we use a base 10 number system). So I wrote it in my dream journal and forgot about it until a few weeks ago. Then I Googled it, and sure enough, the distances are indeed factual! Well, not all the time, since the planets are always in motion. A further complication is the fact that planetary distances are always listed in terms of "mean distance from the sun," not from each other, which makes it difficult to define interplanetary distances. But that also means that there's no possible way I could have known this beforehand, because distances are never taught or written about this way. In fact, if you're going by "mean distance from the sun," this fact isn't even true in terms of an average distance. But what is true that at some point in their orbits, the Earth/Mars distance is exactly 1/10 the Earth/Jupiter distance, and these are the only planets for which this is true, with respect to Earth. (In fact, it would be interesting to see the date for which this alignment is true--but I have no idea how to look up that fact.) Indeed, the fact that this relationship is only true on certain dates in our history means that no book or teacher I've ever had would've ever told me this.

Anyway, the point is that I could have very well have dreamed a number that wasn't true at all, at any point in time for these specific planets. The fact that I was "told" that this number was real, and that it could confirm my dream (which was already one of those lucid/"prophetic" dreams to begin with) makes the string of accidental coincidences less and less plausible.

Man, you guys are weird.

Malik, that's amazing that you had a dream that was so close to what happened in Minneapolis.

I've had dream deja vu, too, but nowhere near the scope you guys are talking about. I remember once in high school, walking down the stairs during a passing period, and being convinced that I'd seen this exact same thing in a dream. That was probably one of those "stuck in a cranial tape loop" instances, though.

The biggest thing I saw coming: When I was briefly a TV producer, I remember arguing with one of my anchors about the lead story for that night's show. It was the day that the first Baltic nation (Latvia? Lithuania? how quickly we forget...) voted to secede from the Soviet bloc. I wanted to go with that; Kurt wanted to go with a local story about a plane that had made an emergency landing at the airport. The plane had landed safely hours before and no one was hurt. I argued that the Baltic story would end up being a much, much bigger deal -- it was the first nation to pull away from Soviet influence since the Prague Spring. I remember saying that others could follow and the whole pack of cards could fall. Well, I lost -- we led with the stupid plane non-crash. (The plane thing had better video.) But I ended up being right about the Soviet Union.

Malik!! I’m convinced you are correct about the Mars cover ups. There have been problems of a suspicious nature with every Mars mission since Viking. Although this is not a time or place to debate the wide range of Mars conspiracies, there is no doubt that something fishy – and important—is going on. I am fascinated to learn of the planetary distance embed within your dream. It brings to mind the Titius-Bode Law, which states that to a rough approximation planetary orbits occur at harmonic ratios one to another. Much of Kepler’s early work bears on this question and these ratios have been a source of inspiration for thinkers from Pythagoras to Holst. I would take issue, however, with the possibility that only Mars and Jupiter can occur in 10:1 apogee. The same is probably true at other points for Jupiter/Venus, Mars/Mercury, and Mercury/Venus. Although I would need to spend some time calculating. Lastly, it is entirely possible that the Jupiter/Mars relation holds only for a very specific date to which your attention is being drawn and that that was the purpose of the information. There should be four such points in every Jupiter cycle, not necessarily evenly spaced, although there may be as many as sixty. I know there are calculators available for planetary ephemeredes, but I don’t have the links, they may not help you with interplanetary distances, and I am almost certain they do not take into account libration. To the nearest whole number this effect and other lesser perturbations can be ignored.

I've had sensations of accidents early in the day both times I was in an accident. I get them every now and again, and I tend to stay home when they occur. But that's as far as my "shine" goes.

Hyperception wrote:I would take issue, however, with the possibility that only Mars and Jupiter can occur in 10:1 apogee. The same is probably true at other points for Jupiter/Venus, Mars/Mercury, and Mercury/Venus. Although I would need to spend some time calculating. Lastly, it is entirely possible that the Jupiter/Mars relation holds only for a very specific date to which your attention is being drawn and that that was the purpose of the information.

You are, of course, correct. I noticed that mistake after thinking about it some more. But I'd already edited my post so much, I figured I'd leave it alone and hope no one noticed! Good job.

Of course, all this could be a big coincidence. I don't believe in miracles or magic, but I do entertain the possibility that "higher" aliens can contact us lowly humans mentally. (Actually, I saw a glowing figure in my home when I was a child . . . but that's another story.)

I take Drake's equation seriously. Thus, I believe that there are many alien civilizations. And since we are born of a 2nd generation star, there could easily be alien civilizations that are billions of years older than ours. I like to think that they'd take an interest in us, but maybe that's my own hubris talking.

everytime i read the title of this thread i want to post...

like the sh!t before it hits the fan???

Fascinating posts folks. I'm not sure I have an opinion yet, but it makes for damn interesting reading.

--A

An argument why precognition is most likely non-existant - or the psychic ability to see into the future.

Before September 11 - the day before, actually - I was on the train heading home from university. I recall looking up into the sky to see a plane. Then I thought to myself how effective it would be to destroy a building if the plane was used as a missile. Now, the less critical amongst us would argue I had 'precognitive episode'. I strongly disagree. What I believe I experienced was a 'statistical freak event'. That is, I happened to be one out of billions that day to think of something similar to 9/11. The likelihood might be as low as .001% - but that multiplied by the total population of humans increases the odds dramatically. In the same way, how many of us dream of an event that comes true, of experiences synchronicity? Most dreams do not 'coincide' with actual events, but what is the likelihood of coincidence? Small, but given the huge numbers of humans, it then becomes likely that at least one of us will dream of an event that later becomes true.

Forget precognition - think of the odds.

Loremaster:

But if one person dreaming something that comes true isn't precognition, then multiple people dreaming something that comes true isn't precognition, either. There's nothing about sheer numbers of people which transforms a chance event into a "supernatural" power. There's always the extremely unlikely possibility that everyone on the planet could have the same dream at the same time, and then this dream came true the next day. If you were stubborn enough, you could deny that there was anything spooky about this and just claim that in the billions of years of the universe's existence, it was bound to happen sooner or later through sheer chance. After all, billions of years is a long time.

At what point do you stop attributing something to chance and accepting it as something real and noteworthy? I guess it depends on your context. You can always find a context where the event was merely chance. But my particular context is my own mind. When I have one of these dreams, I know beforehand that it's a prophetic dream. It feels different from my other dreams. I know while I'm dreaming it that it's a prophetic dream. And then later it comes true. Now if I were merely one of the people who accidentally dreamed about a bridge collapse and my car going into the water, why would I know in advance that it was a prophetic dream? Why don't I ever have one of these dreams and it not come true? Sure, maybe it's a self-fulfilling prophesy. Maybe I'm looking for proof of these dreams because they feel so real to me. But you know what? I sure didn't have to look far, and I sure didn't have to wait very long. The very next day, the exact scenario was plastered all over the international news outlets. I didn't even have to look for it in order to fulfill it.

I know what you're saying. It's like the lottery. The odds are extremely low that any one person will win. But in a population of billions, someone will most likely win. Same thing with any low-probability occurrence in an extremely large population.

However, having one of these low probability dreams is one thing. Knowing that this low probability dream is one of those low probability dream while it's happening, even before you receive the confirmation of it, is entirely different. That would be like the person who turns out to win the lottery knowing that they'll win beforehand (not merely hoping, but knowing).