Kevin's Watch

Heh, I hate "Imagine". In fact, when it comes on the radio, I sing "Imagine there's no Lennon; it's easy if you try". Fortunately, that was a solo song of his, and not a Beatles song.

Yeah; doesn't stop it coming up in every Beatles debate I ever have though.

Heh, you're the one that brought it up!

It would have come up sooner or later anyway. I decided it was better to do it on my terms.

I loathe "Imagine".

Right, it's a terrible song, and to think that some random statement made by Forrest Gump inspired Lennon to write that song.....

Wow. Okay, I see this is an irreconcilable difference of opinion. I think Imagine is one of the most beautiful songs ever written, both in terms of its lyrics and its music. It's pure longing and joy--grief for how we've allowed our memes divide us, and yet hope that mankind can transcend its self-imposed limits of ideology. I'm a flaming conservative and an arrogant bastard, but even I can be moved to tears by such open expression of the Sweet Sadness.

See, I see it as a satanic song that tells me all my problems will go away if I deny God.

Really? You don't really think it's Satanic do you?

I don't see it as a song of personal criticism, or a song advocating a particular ideology--especially not Satanism. It's a song about humanity in general. It doesn't say there is no God. It suggests that we imagine it, and to imagine what the world would be like without it. It's a thought experiment with the intension of revealing our conflicting ideologies, how those ideologies divide us (even--especially--the ones that are supposed to unite us).

It is undeniable that religion divides humans. Islam vs. Christianity. Catholicism vs Protestantism. Baptists vs. Methodists. Everyone trying to live right but condemning each other in the process. If there is a God, certainly He doesn't want this. I'd imagine ( ) that He would like a world very much like the one Lennon sings about.

Malik23 wrote:
It is undeniable that religion divides humans. Islam vs. Christianity. Catholicism vs Protestantism. Baptists vs. Methodists. Everyone trying to live right but condemning each other in the process. If there is a God, certainly He doesn't want this. I'd imagine ( ) that He would like a world very much like the one Lennon sings about.

I never really liked the song that much either, but since I've been reading The God Delusion (Dawkins), this makes the song mean more to me.

Malik23 wrote:Really? You don't really think it's Satanic do you?

Maybe I do, maybe I don't. Either way, this is not the Close, so let's just drop it.

Malik23 wrote: It is undeniable that religion divides humans. Islam vs. Christianity. Catholicism vs Protestantism. Baptists vs. Methodists. Everyone trying to live right but condemning each other in the process. If there is a God, certainly He doesn't want this. I'd imagine ( ) that He would like a world very much like the one Lennon sings about.

IMHO, of course, people divide people. You see it everywhere. You don't need religion to divide human beings all you need are groups. Political Parties, Football fans, Countries, States, you name it. Sure religion is used as an excuse to do unspeakable things but it is my opinion that people will find a way to justify things they do good and bad. Religion is used as a weapon. Reminds me of the Genesis Torpedo of Star Trek II, built to create habitable worlds but perverted into a dreadful weapon.

Back to the point, Imagine is a well crafted song and is memorable to be sure. I've always been much more of a McCartney fan.

Malik, this is for you:

clearfrontier.proboards89.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=gwg&thread=1179855103&page=1

Dan wrote:Malik, this is for you:

No thanks. I've gots lots of free time, but not that much free time. I've got to draw the line at participating in a pointless, boring game designed around a single phrase in one of my posts. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love every last post I've ever made--and I think they are all worthy of attention, too. But you guys go ahead and have fun without me. I'll watch some paint dry or something else really fun instead.

Malik23 wrote:

Dan wrote:Malik, this is for you:

No thanks. I've gots lots of free time, but not that much free time. I've got to draw the line at participating in a pointless, boring game designed around a single phrase in one of my posts.

Oh, I'm offended. Do you really think this is based on one post? For shame. Don't you remember crying when you heard that new Rush tune? So there; it's based on TWO posts, which all experts agree indicate a trend!

Yeah, I remember. I'm a ol' softie when it comes to the suffering of mankind and our existial crisis of confronting the absurdity of our being. What can I say? Tragic beauty moves me. Hence my love of Donaldson. And my avatar. You're right, there is a trend.

I'm in tears over this exchange.

Oh, never mind, I'm sitting on a fork.

I echo Malik's sentiments. "Imagine" is in my opinion a very admirable song. I happened to agree with Cail and CovJr regarding the Beatles for a really long time. Then I actually sat down and listened to most of their discography and my opinion changed. I wouldn't place them in my top five bands, to be sure, but I have developed a far greater appreciation for the Beatles as of late. Lennon as a solo artist had his moments; McCarteney hasn't really produced anything that I've heard that's even worth mentioning; but Harrison solo is fantastic.

I think all 4 of them had their solo moments. I like Wings. I like some of George & Ringo's solo stuff. John wrote a couple of great songs ("Beautiful Boy" and "Starting Over" being the best). John simply took himself too seriously for me to really enjoy.

but Harrison solo is fantastic.

For the most part I'll go along with this (although "My Sweet Lord" is abominable.) Harrison was the most talented member of the Beatles, IMO, and "Something" and "While my guitar gently weeps" show this.