Kevin's Watch

Heh.

Fair Warning
Van Halen
OU812
5150
Women and Children First
Van Halen II
1984
F.U.C.K.
Diver Down
Balance
VH III

Now to be fair, I haven't heard either VH III or Balance in a decade or more, so it's entirely possible that either of them are lost classics.

Fair Warning will always be my #1. It's a brutal album with no dead spots. Similarly, I doubt I'll ever think much of Diver Down, as 'Little Guitars' is the only song I care for on it. 1984 is frustrating because there are some great songs on it; I'll Wait (which is sooooo not a VH song), Drop Dead Legs, Hot for Teacher, House of Pain, but then there's Jump and Panama, which are horrible, horrible, horrible.

Ask me again in a couple of days, and the middle of the list will probably be different.

Edit-And I think Me Wise Magic is the best individual song the band ever did.

I just listened to some samples of VH III at Amazon. It doesn't sound bad! Then I read a review or two. Some of these people are actually praising it:

The other reason "Van Halen 3" bombed was it didn't meet fans expectations. The album was just too far out there for fans to accept. Even fans willing to give Gary Cherone a try just couldn't dig the band's experimentations. "Van Halen 3," with Pink Floyd-esque epics, multi-layered solos, and political/cultural commentaries, was not what Van Halen fans wanted to hear.

All of this is a shame because, despite its faults, "Van Halen 3" is a good album. It was refreshing for Van Halen to branch out and experiment. And Eddie Van Halen had never sounded better, churning out some of his best solos in years.

I hated Extreme, primarily because of Gary's voice and vocal delivery. I'm sure that has biased me.

You know, I'd actually like to hear Dave tackle some of the Van Hagar songs (Get Up, Summer Nights, Cabo Wabo, AFU). I think it'd be interesting, especially since Sammy was able to do some of the Dave songs real justice (especially Somebody Get Me a Doctor).

I'd also like to see and hear that spark that occurred in '96 with Me Wise Magic again. Ed's playing on that song is simply sick; it literally made me want to stop playing. He combined the brilliant lead work he did with Dave with the phenomenal riffs and rhythm work he did with Sammy, and just blew me away.

1984 was my first exposure to VH, although I hated the title song then and still do. Panama and Hot for Teacher were great songs though!

Never liked Panama. Thought it was silly.

[Double post.]

Well, in our top 4, we have 3 in common. Not bad. And we both rate Diver Down low.

I'm really surprised how low you ranked 1984. It has my all-time favorite VH songs, with the best solos, most complex arrangements, while still cranking out hits. Think about how unconventional Hot For Teacher's structure is compared to what a big hit it was (due in part, no doubt, to that awesome, hilarious video). It starts out with a drum solo, guitar solo, dissonant chord riffs, then a break to a bunch of talking and sound effects. It's not your typical song structure for pop/rock song. And that wasn't even the best song on the CD. My favorite was the last one, House of Pain. The jam at the end that starts with DLR's "Ah, ah. Ah, ah," is blistering. I wish it had gone for a minute more. Girl Gone Bad is long, complex, dense, and dark, with one of the most powerful endings they've ever done . . . no meandering fade-out here, but rather a deliberate, bone crunching "Rush-esque" chord stomp to the end. The more accessible Drop Dead Legs was also complex with it's three distinctive parts. It was in many ways the precursor to Summer Nights with it's addictive, catchy verse/chorus and the long, strange jamming solo to the end--though darker and more badass than Summer Nights. And of course the hits Panama and Jump, the latter which has one of the best mixes of guitar and keyboard he's ever achieved. How the guitar solo blends into the keyboard solo is some of the "prettiest" music he's ever written, where the guitar and keyboard take turns being rhythm and lead instruments in the same solo. Brilliant. And that was a pop song! I love that album. That album, to me, is Van Halen.

Sigh.

I'm sitting here looking at the track listing for 1984 and feeling stupid now.

I still say that 1984, Jump, Panama, and to a lesser extent top Jimmy all suck.

I totally agree with your assessment of Drop Dead Legs. Good call. The riff of that song (especially the bending "E") is so sloppy and sleazy. Funny thing is, even though the riff is similar in Summer Nights, the production is completely different. DDL is sloppy, sultry, and sleazy, SN is tight and regimented. DDL's solo is worlds better as well. The SN solo is what keeps it from being my favorite VH song. BTW, this same structure (more or less) was used again to great effect on Me Wise Magic, with Ed demolishing the mid- and outro-solos on MWM.

Hot For Teacher just rocks, beginning to end. Great drums, killer guitar, goofy structure, and Dave's "OH MY GOD" at the end.

As odd as it sounds, I think I'll Wait is the best song on the album, and it sooooo doesn't sound like Van Halen. I love the keyboard riff, the backwards echo on the drums, and the restrained guitar. Ed's tone on the solo is fantastic, I wish he used it more often.

Truth be told, I have no idea why House of Pain and Girl Gone Bad were never released as singles. They're both far superior to anything on Diver Down, and better than big chunks of VH II and W&C 1st.

To be honest, Jump and Panama ruin the album for me.

If anybody cares, this is how I rank the Van Halen albums:


Van Halen
Fair Warning
Women and Children First
Van Halen II
Diver Down
1984

I can't rank the post David Lee Roth albums as I quit buying their stuff when he was fired.

I’m listening to Girl Gone Bad right now. It’s the closest they came to doing a prog rock song. 1:10 worth of instrumental build-up. 40 seconds of singing, then the badass drum fills that repeat through 2:00-2:15. Then solo, then instrumental break with harmonic tapping, then the long outro build to the end with chorus harmonies thrown in over the top. Not much verse/chorus stuff. I love that deep, rapid staccato drum fill that comes in at 4:22. Double bass? Floor toms? And then the punctuated drum “collapse” at the end.

Oh, and the “blistering” part I was talking about in House of Pain is before Dave’s “ahs,” not after. The solo is amazing, fast, and intense. It might be my favorite solo of his, especially combined with the driving chord progression underneath. Then comes Dave’s “ahs” and the song turns groovy for the outro.

Cail wrote:Alex is an egotistical prick who has no career without Van Halen. Watching an interview with Ed and him is like watching Carvelli and Murray from "Welcome Back Kotter". Whatever crap Ed dishes at Dave or Sammy, Alex follows up with "Yeah!".

Dude...you really showed your age with this analogy.

And I am now showing my age by the fact that I knew exactly what you are talking about, and laughed my booty off over it.

Cail wrote:Never liked Panama. Thought it was silly.

Hot For Teacher just rocks, beginning to end. Great drums, killer guitar, goofy structure, and Dave's "OH MY GOD" at the end.

"I brought my pencil.....give me something to write on, man!"

5150 is my favorite, hands down. But then, I'm a Sammy fan.

Cagliostro wrote:

Cail wrote:Alex is an egotistical prick who has no career without Van Halen. Watching an interview with Ed and him is like watching Carvelli and Murray from "Welcome Back Kotter". Whatever crap Ed dishes at Dave or Sammy, Alex follows up with "Yeah!".

Dude...you really showed your age with this analogy.

And I am now showing my age by the fact that I knew exactly what you are talking about, and laughed my booty off over it.

You have no idea how often I've tried to use that analogy.


No one's ever gotten it before.

You VH fans better see them FAST...like at one of the 1st few shows as there is NO WAY that this will last for more than 2 months, tops.

For the record...I like a few of their songs...Dance the Night Away for example...but IMO Eddie was terribly overrated.

See 'em QUICK!!!

A Gunslinger wrote:but IMO Eddie was terribly overrated.

He's certainly no Alan Holdsworth. But as far as rock guitarists go, no one has done more to advance the craft. There might be players you think are better, for a variety of reasons. But did they do anything new, or just what's come before really really well?

I'm certainly not a fan of the guy, but he's hardly over rated. EVH has left as large of a mark on rock guitar as Hendrix, Page, or Clapton.

meh. He found a new sound, but his method of playing is more of a trick than anything else.

Kinda (IMO) like the difference between "craft" and "art". While it's not quite "audio macrame"...you get my point.

Again...only my opinion.

Eddie had many "methods" of playing. I used to be more of an expert about this back in high school, reading all the Guitar Player magazine interviews where he talked about his technique and style. Actually, that's where I first heard of Alan Holdsworth, because Eddie mentioned him as his favorite guitarist. As a 15-yr-old, I thought, "Yeah right, how can some jazz player be better than Eddie?" Then I heard Holdsworth in college, and got into jazz fusion. The man is now my favorite guitarist, too. He is out of this world like Zappa or John McLaughlin. Eddie was actually trying to copy his "legato" style ["In musical notation the Italian word legato (literally meaning "tied together") indicates that musical notes are played smoothly. That is, in transitioning from note to note, there should be no intervening silence."] when he stumbled upon hammer-on and pull-off techniques. He expanded this technique in several different ways and styles. He also made use of harmonic tapping, where the string is tapped at certain mathematical intervals to produce two notes at once with a "chime" or "bell" like quality. And right-hand smacking/thumping techniques rarely used even by bass players at that time. Combined with harmonic tapping, this allowed him to play bass-like or rhythm guitar-like parts underneath a high, chiming melody . . . similar to the beginning of Mean Street.

And he was constantly pushing tone and sound. It wasn't about showing off what his fingers could do, but how he could coax sounds from wires and a piece of wood that no one had heard before. This included his sense of melody, timing, and chord progression. His writing. His "brown tone" as he called it. He would sound like Eddie coming out of any amp and with any guitar, because his sound was in him, not the technology or techniques.

Couldn't put it better.

I never mention Ed when I'm listing my favorite players, but I've got to give the man credit. He is the only player I've ever heard to master the Trans-Trem. He's one of the only players that I've given up playing air-guitar to, 'cause there's just no telling what the Hell he's doing to make those sounds.

Again, listen to Me Wise Magic, AFU, or Mean Streets. How the Hell does he do it? Call it a gimmick, but he blew the door open for guys like Lynch, Yngwie, and the other players of their ilk.

Jumping in a bit late...

I totally agree too. He wasn't the first to use tapping (among others Steve Hackett was using it by '72) but what he did with it was amazing. On the other hand, I can't stand "Eruption" ... that's just wanking. It's how he can take all his techniques and still keep it melodic that amazes me. I've never been that big of a VH fan and I don't list him in my favorite guitarists either -- but that might be because my playing style and general taste is so different.

I hope Dave will sing some of the Sammy tunes. Just in case the thing explodes, I'm glad I'm seeing the 2nd show of the tour (Greensboro)