Pantheon - Rules Feedback Thread

[Xar]

for instance...how can there be a god of weather AND a god of winter? isn't the god of weather the god of winter weather too? does that mean that the god of winter is less powerful and some how vassalated to the god of weather? don't you think a seasonal god is less powerful and beholden to a god of ALL weather?
see...things have to make sense to me.

As has been extensively explained before when these instances occurred, more focused domains are more powerful than more general domains - i.e. a god of storms is more powerful than a god of weather when it comes to storms, and he or she is not necessarily a vassal of the latter. There is precedent for this kind of thing in the real world too - as a simple example, consider Aphrodite and Eros - the goddess of love and the god of falling in love.
As far as I'm concerned, a more focused domain is more powerful than a more general domain, at the cost of versatility. It's a choice you have to make.

at the beginning of the game, gods "reveal" themselves to their prophet and thats how a player gets into the game...but...
how did the god become a god? where did the god come from? why aren't the god's beginnings or birth or acendancy a requirement for entering the game? don't you think its important to know how you became a god? how, exactly ARE gods made????
this, i think, would have a LOT to do with how one played the game.
what exactly caused Nor Yekith to become the god of mallice and mutation? was he a mortal who, through his acts in the mortal realm ascended to that status, or was he born of other mallefic gods, or WHAT?
see what i mean?
AND...how a god was born or ascended would give the god PURPOSE (the player a playing agenda) right out of the gate.

I'm not going to give any guidelines or explanations - this is deliberately left open for each player to create the backstory of his or her god. Several players this time did exactly that - gave me backstories, even though they didn't share them with anybody else. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to you players to provide the background, not to me.

Argothoth and I really do strive to not oppose each other as Light and Darkness. Is there a way to ensure opposites work in harmony with each other, instead of opposition? Or, at least allow the characters the opportunity to do so, instead of having the AllFather pit one against the other for no reason other than domains?

Indeed there will be - at a cost. I have set up at least one-two additional levels of intrigue with the rules for the new Pantheon game - and although they do provide for the possibility of opposites working together, they do so at a cost for at least one, or both gods (since after all their power is such that when one is strengthened the other is weakened).

In other words, a 6DRP god changes his domain from X to Y. All his worshippers are not going to just follow him into his new calling. So he might drop to a 3 DRP god. After that, rank progression should be normal from his new level up again. At the least that'll discourage people from changing, or make them give more thought to the ways they can play their character.

As Balon says, this already happens - it takes a lot of power to proselytize timely enough as to avoid a large drop in power. Perhaps the best example that this already happens is when Adomorn and Maeror went to war, and then suddenly Adomorn had a change of heart - many of his soldiers and generals didn't heed his words and continued attacking Maeror until Adomorn stepped in forcefully and used a lot of power to persuade them to join him again.
However, change should be allowed to a certain extent: I don't want players making a choice at the beginning of the game, then realizing this is not exactly what they wanted, only to find out they can't change domains anymore, or they have to wait for people to change their minds spontaneously.

Norn wanted the world to last longer (I think?) so mabye having a game subbmission turn as a year? Or half a year? That would speed up the world, but keep the RL timeframe the same.

This could be done, but it will get rid of seasonal and monthly deities. Probably in this case I would go for 1 turn = 1 year. Any other opinions on this?

[Avatar]

Easy either way on that score.

As for changing domains though, Balon used his power to prevent a drop. I'm suggesting that a drop occur anyway if you want to change.


--A

[Norn]

I think some of you may have misunderstood me here. I do not want the game to last longer for the sake of it. It's just that I was really annoyed when P1 ended when it did - anything I had been planning was just cast aside and it felt like a big fat waste of my time. There current (and very sudden) discussion about P3 made me suspicious that P2 might suffer the same fate, and I just wanted to make my feelings around that known.

Some further thoughts:

Domains - I don't necessarily think that having two domains should mean that you are weaker in both. In P2 (and even more so in P1)I made the effort to not only make sure that my two domains didn't oppose each other, but that my way of interpreting them tied them both together, so why should either be weaker? Unless of course I just arbitrarily chose two domains and made no effort to synchronize them. Also Menolly, I think Luci etc were talking about a single deities own domains when they were talking about opposing domains, not one deities domain versus another deities domain (thus you couldn't be goddess of light and darkness).

NPCs - I actually preferred the NPCs in P1, especially Morgath, because they were entirely separate. They weren't purposely created by another deity and they weren't automatically allied with another deity (Solina had been Movahl's lover but her ascension drove her insane). Thus these NPCs were there own characters as opposed to just being extra DRP for their creator.

Revelations - Once again, I like what Luci had to say about this. I must say Vadhaka that although you say you justified your existence in your revelation, it says nothing about how you became a god, or what you were before you were a god (if you weren't born divine), or why you happened to become god of assassins and thieves. We may not be able to force all players to include such information in their revelations, but I for one would welcome it.

Edit - Changing domains. I agree Av, a DRP drop whenever you change domains regardless.

[I'm Murrin]

The origins thing is unimportant, and sometimes there isn't much you can say on the matter anyhow. In my mind, the majority of gods simply coalesce from the outer darkness, shaped and drawn close to the world by the hopes and needs of an individual--their prophet. In other words, they don't exist before the moment of their reveal. I have no difficulty with the idea that a god might simply exist because someone needed them to exist--it goes along with the nebulous, uncertain concept of what a god is.
On the other hand, sometimes it's just better storytelling to not just dump all the information out right at the start--show who you are and how you came about organically in the course of your actions and interactions.


I agree on the NPCs there, Norn. The P1 NPCs were better than many of the current NPCs.

[Avatar]

Yeah, that's how I saw it too. Anyway, I think the rest of my origin story came out in game play...being the son of the old god of knowledge etc.

(Oh and btw...I contributed to creating Hedra and beyond her welcome aid once or twice, she was definitely not extra drp for me.)

--A

[Norn]

I preferred the way they came into being (except Arrai, on whom I cannot comment since I know pretty much nothing abut him) to home our current NPCs showed up, and I think they would have provided a lot of interesting story had the game not died before its time.

I know she wasn't just extra DRP for you Av.

[Avatar]

Agree with the above though...they were better NPC's in those days.

--A

[Fist and Faith]

Bhakti's a god because his parents were. The origin may matter to the player, but it doesn't seem important to the inhabitants of Eiran. They worship, we get DRP's. But I assume most players have a certain agenda in mind when they join. So they can make the origin fit that agenda.


It seems to me having less domains should make them stronger. If you have only one, all of your DRP's go into it all the time. You can accomplish more in that domain than you could if you have more than one, and split your DRP's between them. It just depends on which way you think will make achieving your goals easier. I don't think there needs to be one major domain and the others are minor, but I have no problem with it if that's what Xar wants to do.

Xar's explanation of domains like Storms vs Weather seems perfectly reasonable. A Storm deity can out-storm a Weather deity; but a Weather deity can do a thousand other things with Weather, while a Storm deity can only make or break storms.


As for NPC deities, I've already said I don't think there should be any. My feelings on this are widely known.

[Xar]

Bhakti's a god because his parents were. The origin may matter to the player, but it doesn't seem important to the inhabitants of Eiran. They worship, we get DRP's. But I assume most players have a certain agenda in mind when they join. So they can make the origin fit that agenda.

My feelings exactly. That's why the first contest I organized was the creation myths contest - it gave each player the chance to describe what the followers of his or her character believe about the origin of their god. The real origins of the deity are important for the players, but they might even end up being dangerous to be revealed to the worshipers (imagine telling your worshipers that you are what you are because they perceive you that way...). As far as I'm concerned, if you want to tell others your origin, you're free to do so; if you don't, you're also free to keep it a secret. And, as I said before, I will not place any rules on this - if you feel the burning need to have an origin story, it's up to you to imagine everything.

[Mistress Cathy]

I do see the necessity of having a backstory as to how a god came into being. For those of us who are creatively challenged, having to come up with a backstory as to how my god was born would be torturous. I have a hard enough time with the reveal and contests.

I think Xar is right that it should be up to each individual if they want to give a backstory.

[Fist and Faith]

Does that mean you do not see the necessity?

[Menolly]

Also, although I have no ideas right now myself, some more rules on how to use domains would be nice. Mostly I've been combining them with DRP, as that IS what makes a God(dess) pwerfull, but I also am of the thinking that just BEING a God(dess) should be able to exert influence over their own domains, without using DRP.

*confused*

Of necessity, I've already done this. It's never as affective as applying DRP to an action, but some things have occured simply through domain usage.

Norn wanted the world to last longer (I think?) so mabye having a game subbmission turn as a year? Or half a year? That would speed up the world, but keep the RL timeframe the same.

This could be done, but it will get rid of seasonal and monthly deities. Probably in this case I would go for 1 turn = 1 year. Any other opinions on this?

I, for one, like the different seasons and the chance to have monthly and seasonal deities. But again, it's the only way I have ever played, and I am very resistant to change...

[I'm Murrin]

I think I like the idea of the major/minor domains. I have two domains in mind for my new god, and one would be expressed quite openly and widely, while the other would be purely dogmatic--a justification of the god's behaviour. In that case, the one major/one minor setup would be perfect for this god.

I'd be alright for making turns a year as well. So far there are a number of individuals I'm aware of that will never really come into the importance they should have simply because time moves too slowly in the game.
As for the monthly/seasonal things, I must say I haven't really noticed them of being of much importance in this game. Have people even been using them at all?

[Mistress Cathy]

Fist,

You are right. I do not see the necessity. heh.

[Astavyastataa Kadna]

If each Turn encompassed a year I would expect our follower count to grow MUCH faster Turn-to-Turn (if only from population growth!) and consequently our DRP.

Does this make sense?

[stonemaybe]

I like the one season=one turn timeline. I can see how having a yearly turn could benefit some things, such as character development, but so much can happen in a year that I think it's too long. We need to be able to respond to things quicker than that. It'd be a completely different game, with players having to make much wider and more generalised moves. At the moment, say another player attacked me, and I had something to do urgently in my next turn, at least i know that I could retaliate the turn after, in 6 months, rather than 2 years time!

[Mistress Cathy]

I also like having the seasons - one season per turn. I request that we keep that.

[Bhakti]

Yes, I also like 1 turn=1 season.

[O-gon-cho]

Norn wanted the world to last longer (I think?) so mabye having a game subbmission turn as a year? Or half a year? That would speed up the world, but keep the RL timeframe the same.

This could be done, but it will get rid of seasonal and monthly deities. Probably in this case I would go for 1 turn = 1 year. Any other opinions on this?

I, for one, like the different seasons and the chance to have monthly and seasonal deities. But again, it's the only way I have ever played, and I am very resistant to change...

I like the one season=one turn timeline. I can see how having a yearly turn could benefit some things, such as character development, but so much can happen in a year that I think it's too long. We need to be able to respond to things quicker than that. It'd be a completely different game, with players having to make much wider and more generalised moves. At the moment, say another player attacked me, and I had something to do urgently in my next turn, at least i know that I could retaliate the turn after, in 6 months, rather than 2 years time!

I also like having the seasons - one season per turn. I request that we keep that.

Yes, I also like 1 turn=1 season.

...glad to see I'm not the only one...

[I'm Murrin]

I like the one season=one turn timeline. I can see how having a yearly turn could benefit some things, such as character development, but so much can happen in a year that I think it's too long. We need to be able to respond to things quicker than that. It'd be a completely different game, with players having to make much wider and more generalised moves. At the moment, say another player attacked me, and I had something to do urgently in my next turn, at least i know that I could retaliate the turn after, in 6 months, rather than 2 years time!

Well, the timelines aren't as realistic as that. It doesn't really seem to matter that it takes three months to do anything; why should it matter if it takes longer?
At the very least, the current turn rate makes all the 'important birth' events completely pointless, because the game will never reach a point where these characters will be significant.

How would people feel about Summer/Winter turns, then? Six months instead of a year?