Kevin's Watch

Aleksandr wrote:There's another potential discrepancy I noted as well, but this one may due to point of view. Someone (Esmer or the Harrow) tells Linden that the Elohim do not want the White Gold and never did, but that contradicts the fact that Chant tried to talk TC out of the Ring in TOT, that Findail told Linden and TC that he was hoping they would wise up and let him have the Ring, and at the end he tried very hard to get it.
As I said this could just be a point of view issue where the speaker did not know what he was talking about.

I think it was more a desire for Covenant to not have the ring, than for the Elohim to have it. If they did desire the power, they would never admit to it. After all, the Elohim are "equal to all things" *snicker*.

Rocksister wrote:So we started with five words, but they were called seven. Then we had six words, which were also called seven. And now we finally have seven words. Linden lived for ten years (sorry, I forget how many exactly) between book six and book seven, so if YOU can remember some really odd words for that long and then recall them exactly from one hearing after that length of time, mo power to you. I know I couldn't do that. But she does seem to remember other stuff inhumanly well. What do I know?

They weren't necessarily called the "Seven Words," they were just referred to as such, and usually in a way that indicated how little the Lords actually knew about them.

As to inhuman memory - does anyone recall how Covenant could recite all of Lord Foul's message verbatim in LFB?

Wasn't he aided by magic? Didn't he sort of go into an almost trance whenever he recited it?

Hmmmm, no, I don't think so.

i also get the impression there was a semi-trance thing going on, at least when he said it to the lords. it seemed like foul had put a geas on him, otherwise tc has an eidetic (sp) memory.

dlbpharmd wrote: As to inhuman memory - does anyone recall how Covenant could recite all of Lord Foul's message verbatim in LFB?

Lord Foul embedded the message into Covenant. TC had no choice but to repeat the words. That is why he tried to get to revelstone as fast as possible.

Fine, add another research project to my growing pile.... sheesh....

I don't have the books here, but I am quite certain that when TC repeats Foul's message, the text conveys that once he starts, the words just come out; Foul somehow imprinted the message on him, so that the exact words would be used. So it wasn't a case of TC having perfect recall; it was some dark mojo Foul used to ensure his message was repeaterd just as he wanted.

So I was sort of right then....

i wonder if the 7 wards were based on the 7 words...

I think Donaldson just likes the number seven.....

6 times 7 plus 7 years if they don't get the staff......

Cameraman Jenn wrote:So I was sort of right then....

More than sort of - just not specifically right.

Cameraman Jenn wrote:I think Donaldson just likes the number seven.....

6 times 7 plus 7 years if they don't get the staff......

Wasn't that from FBH?

Well, technically it is taken from the original message.

"Say to the Council of Lords, and to High Lord Prothall son of Dwilian, that the uttermost limit of their span of days upon the Land is seven times seven years from this present time. Before the end of those days are numbered, I will have the command of life and death in my hand. And as a token that what I say is the one word of truth, tell them this :Drool Rockworm, Cavewight of Mount Thunder, has found the Staff of Law, which was lost ten times a hundred years ago by Kevin ath the Ritual of Desecration. Say to them that the task appointed to their generation is to regain the Staff. Without it, they will not be able to resist me for seven years, and my complete victory will be acheived six times seven years earlier than it would be else. As for you, groveler: do not fail with this message. If you do not bring it before the Council, then every human in the Land will b e dead before ten seasons have passed. If you do not clean the kitchen in ten times three minutes then you will lose your television priveleges for seven times two days. "

So essentially, Foul in power regardless in 49 years, Seven years if they fail to get the staff and if TC fails with the message, all humans dead in two and a half years and you lose your television priveleges if you don't clean the kitchen in half an hour, got it? got it? GO!

I think someone needs acquaintance with the law of fives.

I think everyone's reading far to much into this.

Rocksister wrote:So we started with five words, but they were called seven. Then we had six words, which were also called seven. And now we finally have seven words. Linden lived for ten years (sorry, I forget how many exactly) between book six and book seven, so if YOU can remember some really odd words for that long and then recall them exactly from one hearing after that length of time, mo power to you. I know I couldn't do that. But she does seem to remember other stuff inhumanly well. What do I know?

Just my opinion here:

I agree that remembering a handful of words in a strange language would be hard after 10 years and the fact that there's a screaming ravenous lurker attacking eveybody and she's sitting on the bank with a shattered ankle, etc..

But I took it that her memories concerning the Land have stayed quite keen because she holds onto them fiercely. Consider how "out of the ordinary" it would be to experience something like a transitional adventure to another existence and the profound impact it had on her as a person. I would think that by the age of 30 most of us have a pretty good idea who we are, and here is Linden at almost 40 and she clings to those memories of the Land and Thomas Covenant with a deathgrip. Those meories help her find the calm center that is the storm of her life.

I would not at all be surprised to find that outside of caring for her patients and Jeremiah that her thoughts are consumed by her experiences in The Second Chrons. We've all known people who "live in the past" or allow their past to define them, as if during that time there was an intangible supplementing the value of their own life and therefore they are rextremely reluctant to let those memories drift away into the "mental warehouse" if you will.

So yeah...I rambled enough. I can see her remembering a lot of things but not a handful of strange words, considering the circumstances when she first heard them.

Aranion wrote:I don't have the books here, but I am quite certain that when TC repeats Foul's message, the text conveys that once he starts, the words just come out; Foul somehow imprinted the message on him, so that the exact words would be used. So it wasn't a case of TC having perfect recall; it was some dark mojo Foul used to ensure his message was repeaterd just as he wanted.

Actually, Foul's message was like a command to TC, he was compelled to remember it, and to deliver it. I remember a few passages where he said as much, that he couldnt get it out of his head, or a sentiment to that effect.

Theomach wrote:i wonder if the 7 wards were based on the 7 words...

Probably not, since the new Lords at the start of the Chronicles knew some of the words (five I think) yet had only got the First Ward of Kevin's Lore, from the Giants.

As pointed out in another thread, after the recovery of the Second Ward (during Lord Foul's Bane) the number of words that the Lords knew increased to six.

So I doubt that there is a direct correlation between the seven Wards and seven Words. However since the SIXTH word was found in the SECOND ward, it is entirely possible that the SEVENTH word would have been found in a subsequent ward.

In fact, the new Lords may have found the seventh word - between the end of the First Chronicles and the start of the Second Chronicles, the Third Ward was recovered somehow. Covenant sees it in Revelstone when Vain is retrieving the bands of the the Staff of Law.

Thranathiril

In addition to the New Lords not knowing the 7th word, it appears they also grouped them incorrectly. They always say "Melunkurion Abatha! Duroc Minas Mill Kaabal!" But the correct grouping is "Melkunkurion Abatha. Duroc Minas Mill. Harad Kaabal." I wonder if that also lessens their potency.

Could be, Borillar. I noticed that also.