Kevin's Watch

Yeah, Harrow wants to destroy and remake everything.

Let's hope he gets the chance

I wonder about the nature of the Insequent. Every one that we have seen has incredible, world class power. And we never really hear too much about any sort of homeland or anything about them in groups.

Is it possible that in fact, they are not a race unto themselves (like haruchai or ramen), but a class of beings that have, for one reason or another, accumulated so much power/knowledge that they transcend their originas and become Insequent.

Perhaps SRD is using the word as an adjective rather than a noun; once they achieve this level, they become Insequent.

And if the Theomach is indeed someone like this, that Linden or TC has encountered in the past, then it would explain the hiding of his face.

Good theory. As I am now stating in the Continuity of Time thread, I'm wondering out loud if the Insequent (which act sort of like Time Gypsies?) might be somehow created by the Arch of Time (or directly by TC - the TimeWarden - himself?) to heal the breaches that have been made by wild magic via Joan's caesures.

My reasoning for this is a rather flimsy argument of the lack of necessity for those who can travel within Time, at least before the first breach of Time is made by caesure. In other words, what did the Insequent do before they had Time breaches to to mend?

dw

Skurj Scourge wrote: Is it possible that in fact, they are not a race unto themselves (like haruchai or ramen), but a class of beings that have, for one reason or another, accumulated so much power/knowledge that they transcend their originas and become Insequent.

Kinda like the ascended from stargate?

Skurj Scourge wrote:I wonder about the nature of the Insequent. Every one that we have seen has incredible, world class power. And we never really hear too much about any sort of homeland or anything about them in groups.

Is it possible that in fact, they are not a race unto themselves (like haruchai or ramen), but a class of beings that have, for one reason or another, accumulated so much power/knowledge that they transcend their originas and become Insequent.

Perhaps SRD is using the word as an adjective rather than a noun; once they achieve this level, they become Insequent.

And if the Theomach is indeed someone like this, that Linden or TC has encountered in the past, then it would explain the hiding of his face.

I can think of two objections to this. We have the Haruchai story of the Insequent homeland, and Haruchai stories shouldn't devolve into folklore due to their mind sharing ability.

Also I notice that the name taboo is common to all of them. That argues them being being an agglomeration of diverse people. They have a common origin.

I can't help but notice how they (according to their own account) spend their lives seeking lore in the world to further their ends, while the Elohim do the exact opposite. There is some connection between the two. Surely suggesting that they are exiled or failed elohim is unlikely and my first idea, that we were dealing with BABY ELOHIM, is more unlikely yet. But there is a strong connection between the two races.

Finally, who says that Kastanessen's lover was human. Could she be Insequent? Maybe SRD has the bombshell saved up for us that she was the Mahdoubt?????? (Unlilkely, SRD goes in for big shocks like that nowadays.)

I doubt we will actually see Kastenessen's lover. I got the impression that she is no more, adding to his grief and madness. I don't think, however, we have seen the last of the merewives.

New thought:

+ The Insequent have "real" names which, if you invoke them, give you power over the Insequent.

+ There are seven words of power which, if you invoke them, give you power.

+ The Insequent taught the meanings of the seven words to Berek.

Is there a connection here? Could the names of the Insequent be in the same language as the Seven Words?

Wayfriend wrote:New thought:

+ The Insequent have "real" names which, if you invoke them, give you power over the Insequent.

+ There are seven words of power which, if you invoke them, give you power.

+ The Insequent taught the meanings of the seven words to Berek.

Is there a connection here? Could the names of the Insequent be in the same language as the Seven Words?

Seems likely.

Can't buy that unless the Insequents are offspring of the Elohim. It stated that the Theomach said the seven words are in the language of the race he disliked.(hated) Which happen to be the Elohim. (When the Theomach was teaching the power words to Berek and linden)

Also, wouldn't the names of the Elohim also be used to bind them also?

Seppi2112 wrote:

Skurj Scourge wrote: Is it possible that in fact, they are not a race unto themselves (like haruchai or ramen), but a class of beings that have, for one reason or another, accumulated so much power/knowledge that they transcend their originas and become Insequent.

Kinda like the ascended from stargate?

Or sort of analogous to the Unfettered?
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callback wrote:Finally, who says that Kastanessen's lover was human. Could she be Insequent?

That's what I suspect, too.
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And I quote myself, and then a recent GI comment:

Last week, I wrote:...maybe the entire Insequent, or at least their importance, were a late discovery? If so, he didn't need to give her a meaningful name 3 years ago, but the rest then got them.

SRD wrote:It's true that I got the essential ideas for "The Last Chronicles" at the same time that I conceived "The Second Chronicles". And it's true that I did everything possible in "The Second Chronicles" to prepare the way for what I'm doing now. But that doesn't I planned or envisioned every detail of "The Last Chronicles" 25+ years ago. In fact, there are many things in this new story that I didn't foresee way back when (things, incidentally, of which I'm very proud). At least in some ways, I'm a "smarter" writer now than I was then. And my general approach of not inventing more than I need at any given time has served me well by leaving plenty of room for new ideas and understandings. In short, if you assume that EVerything in "The Last Chronicles" has some kind of antecedent in the earlier books, you'll be setting yourself up for disappointment.

Re: I can think of two objections to this.

I can think of one more: the Mahdoubt specifically denies that they are anything but men and women who have made a career of seeking knowledge.

I do however like the suggestion that Kastenessen's mortal lover was Insequent, if not maybe the Mahdoubt herself (although she admits that once she was misled by love). Something other than simple incompatibility should account for the bad blood between the Insequent and the Elohim, and something too should explain why they are so vastly more lore-wise than even the greatest of the Old Lords, yet have apparently escaped Lord Foul's attentions. And aren't the Seven Words which the Theomach teaches Berek and Linden from the language of the Elohim?

I can certainly see The Mahdoubt's name as a tribute to the shaDOUT MApes - which makes sense given her role at Revelstone. But I somehow read it as a portmanteau of Mahdi and Redoubt (a word I'm positive I've seen in the Chronicles), which would make her name mean something like "one who protects/houses the savior of the world" which she certainly fulfills - if you consider Linden to be a mahdi.

Or it could be a simpler mixture of Mahdi and Doubt as in "one who doubts the savior of the world", a Thomas to Thomas Covenant so to speak - if you think of TC as a mahdi. Hell, I guess they both work!

The interview in which SRD refers to the Mahdoubt/Shadout similarity is at www.orionbooks.co.uk/interview.aspx?ID=11373

Ur Dead wrote:Can't buy that unless the Insequents are offspring of the Elohim. It stated that the Theomach said the seven words are in the language of the race he disliked.(hated) Which happen to be the Elohim. (When the Theomach was teaching the power words to Berek and linden)

Also, wouldn't the names of the Elohim also be used to bind them also?

What the Theomach actually says is

In [u]Fatal Revenant[/u] was wrote:"This tongue is spoken nowhere, other than by one race that I scorn to name, for it is the language of the Earth's making and substance rather than of the Earth's peoples. Yet it may be discovered, word by word, by those who seek deeply for knowledge - and who do not wish to bend or distort that knowledge for their own ends."

The Insequent don't like the Elohim. But this language is not the Elohim's language per se; they are just the only ones who speak it.

Which means that the Insequent, although they "seek deeply for knowledge", don't speak it.

This either means that their names aren't in this language, as they don't speak it, or that they are, because they don't speak their own names. I cannot decide.

Nice one Wayfirend, I have just finished the book and was thinking whilst reading it that the names would have some meaning as few are totally random where SRD is concerned.

Stave contends when the Harrow appears in Andelain that there was no warding by the wraiths as he was a being versed in lore and power not "of" lore and power (or words to that effect). Given the life spans of the bloodguard and the Giants, could not the Unfettered have eventually become Insequent? After all, they went don their own particular path studying facets of Lore outside the regulated study of the Lords. That lore was specific to a calling and allowed them the use of power, as seen when TC availed himself of it.

Sorry I do not follow your argument: what has the lifespan of the Giants/Bloodguard to do with the Unfettered becoming Insequent?

I'd say the problem with that theory is that the Unfettered came about as a result of the legend of the Unfettered Ones, which was created by an Insequent. So even though the Theomach apparently based the legend on the lives of the Insequent, there were no actual Unfettered before humans learned of the legend.

amanibhavam wrote:Sorry I do not follow your argument: what has the lifespan of the Giants/Bloodguard to do with the Unfettered becoming Insequent?

Simply that the land/lore/earthpower can sustain very long life and that the Unfettered ones might be capable of living a long time and ultimately become the Insequent.

The only thing I can think of to make sense of the connection between the Insequent and the Elohim.. Is that the Insequent are Elohim who escaped from their Appointedness.. They formed their own community because they couldn't go back to the Elohim and created their own sets of rules, etc..

Sure it doesn't really work but it sure explains why the insequent hate the Elohim so much..

I also don't think the Elihims names (Infelice, Finail, ets.) are their real names either..

I doubt this is likely, but perhaps in the past when Elohim have mated with regular humans, the offspring become Insequent? This could explain why there was such a hub-bub when you-know-how mated with a human woman and imbued upon her the power of the Elohim...

I don't believe it myself but thought I would mention it anyway.

dukehenry wrote:I doubt this is likely, but perhaps in the past when Elohim have mated with regular humans, the offspring become Insequent? This could explain why there was such a hub-bub when you-know-how mated with a human woman and imbued upon her the power of the Elohim...

I don't believe it myself but thought I would mention it anyway.

We only have evidence of that happening once, with Kastanessen, and that pairing produced something not human (the merewives.)