Kevin's Watch

Correct. My point is that the text supports the idea that the Stone might not have been imported, but made. It's only my opinion that this is indeed what happened.

That, and I think that the idea that outside the Arch is timelessness and chaos, such that an Arch is needed merely to allow physical things to exist, suggests that the Illearth Stone wasn't out there. Not unless it has an aspect, like Foul, that is timeless and infinite.

But if that were true, I don't think it could be truly destroyed.

wayfriend wrote:Correct. My point is that the text supports the idea that the Stone might not have been imported, but made. It's only my opinion that this is indeed what happened.

That, and I think that the idea that outside the Arch is timelessness and chaos, such that an Arch is needed merely to allow physical things to exist, suggests that the Illearth Stone wasn't out there. Not unless it has an aspect, like Foul, that is timeless and infinite.

But if that were true, I don't think it could be truly destroyed.

I don't agree with your theory about why the Arch exists since the Worm came from outside the Arch.

I've always thought the Illearth Stone was a large emerald that Lord Foul used to channel all his hatred and despite. Like a crystal cat's - whisker in an old radio set that's broadcasting a Hitler speach, it's not the crystal that's evil it's just being used as a conduit.

If it is an emerald, then it seems perfectly feasible (in a fantasy dream) that all Foul has is a fragment of the true motherload.

Why did Foul attack Revelwood then Revelstone instead of going straight for the heart of the Land. My guess is that Cear Caveral possessed one of the fragments and was using it to defend Andelain. And what did happen to Kinslaughters peice of the Illearth Stone? Did Foul just tuck it away in a bottom drawer? Maybe the Bloodguard hid it somewhere. I never believed they told the whole story of the mission to Seareach anyway.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:I don't agree with your theory about why the Arch exists since the Worm came from outside the Arch.

The Worm came from outside the Arch?

wayfriend wrote:Correct. My point is that the text supports the idea that the Stone might not have been imported, but made. It's only my opinion that this is indeed what happened.

That, and I think that the idea that outside the Arch is timelessness and chaos, such that an Arch is needed merely to allow physical things to exist, suggests that the Illearth Stone wasn't out there. Not unless it has an aspect, like Foul, that is timeless and infinite.

But if that were true, I don't think it could be truly destroyed.

The same could be said of the Wild Magic, no? That it didn't exist outside creation but made during its creation as one of its constituents. I saw the Illearth stone as similar to the Wild Magic but while the Wild Magic was part of the creation (it was 'graven in every rock') the Illearth stone was whole onto itself. It, and the other buried banes, did not participate in the creation. They are foreign to the land and its laws and therefore are not restricted by them.

wayfriend wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:I don't agree with your theory about why the Arch exists since the Worm came from outside the Arch.

The Worm came from outside the Arch?

Yes, as did the stars, the Creator's children, in the sky of the Land.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

wayfriend wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:I don't agree with your theory about why the Arch exists since the Worm came from outside the Arch.

The Worm came from outside the Arch?

Yes, as did the stars, the Creator's children, in the sky of the Land.

I may be mis-remembering, but aren't the Arch and the Worm parts of two different creation stories? They both turn out to have some truth in the Land, but there is something odd: the rousing of the worm is sufficient itself to destroy the world, but not the Arch, or LF would have just awakened the thing himself millenia ago...I don't know if there's more to the story, and we'll find out later or if, because they're stories not literal fact, they won't be/needn't be resolved.

Yes, I agree that the Worm is not only a myth, but it is also clearly a metphor for the Wurd. Combining the Arch myth with the Worm myth is kind of like mixing the myth of the Sun is a Winged Chariot and the myth of the Sun is the headpiece of Re. We can't go around wondering how Re keeps his hat on with those horses tied to it. It takes the myths too literally.

In the Gradual Interview was wrote:Well, *all* the Creation Myths in "The Chronicles" are anthropomorphic. On some level, therefore, they are all false.

(10/22/2008)

The Rainbow myth suggests that the stars are from outside the Arch, if you equate the Rainbow with the Arch. And the Worm wanders among the stars. But you need to combine THREE myths now to make it work out that the Worm is from outside the Arch.

And you have to rather inconsistently ignore the possibility that the Worm, like the Rainbow, is the Arch.

wayfriend wrote: The Rainbow myth suggests that the stars are from outside the Arch, if you equate the Rainbow with the Arch. And the Worm wanders among the stars. But you need to combine THREE myths now to make it work out that the Worm is from outside the Arch.

And you have to rather inconsistently ignore the possibility that the Worm, like the Rainbow, is the Arch.

I don't believe the rainbow story is an independent story. Rather it's a synthesis of the other two stories (the Worm&Stars and the Creator&Foul&Arch)

It has a creation and rainbow instead of the worm and a rainbow instead of the arch. It's a giantish combination of the two stories.

We have to remember where these stories came from. The people of the Land had the Creator-Foul story, perhaps because they were in contact with Foul or perhaps because the magic of the Land is close to the surface in their area. The Unhomed Giants that came to the Land heard it from them. But they have in all likelihood also heard another story before they reached the Land. They have visited the Elohim's home on their journey to the Land and like the later giants we meet in the second chronicles heard from them the story of the stars and the worm.

Over the centuries they must have combined these two conflicting stories into a coherent whole and maybe even forgot the original story about the Worm the Elohim told them. While Foul was very much on their thoughts since they were now his neighbors, the Worm was not, and neither were the Nicor which are supposed to be explained as descendants of the worm. So they forgot about the worm part.