Kevin's Watch

I love the heck outta this thread!

What about the significance of Ak-Haru's "fading" as the battle wore on??? Does this shed light on his genealogy---Personally I think that he is of Haruchai origin based on what was said earlier----he has attained the ULTIMATE in what the haruchi strive for.

birdandbear wrote:If Tan Haruchai means "We accept", is it possible that Ak-Haru means something like "He who has ultimately accepted"?

I think it more likely that Tan Haruchai means more exactly "the Haruchai accept".

However, you may not be that far off. If Haruchai means "mountain people", say, then ak-Haru might mean something like "pinnacle", or, more loosely, "epitome". Alternately, the similarity between haru and the Mandarin (?) word han points up another possibility - ak-Haru might mean "the man".

(I also cannot help but notice that everyone in the Land seems to suffer from hyphentropism. in Chron II. ak-Haru, na-Mhoram, a-Jeroth, etc.)
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Brinn of the Haruchai wrote:What about the significance of Ak-Haru's "fading" as the battle wore on???

He did not fade ... he unfaded.

If you interpret his invisibility as a martial skill utterly perfected (as I do) then the unfading represents simply that he was tiring. Brinn was making a dent -- but the scales of the situation were such that this is how it manifested. Sort of like attacking a tank with your bare hands - if your really, really good, you might consider it a point won if, before you buy it, you could take out the antenna that lets the tank radio in time that you were squished. So in this way, the author was letting us know that Brinn was not entirely effectless. This is pretty important since Brinn is measuring his worth.

Wayfriend wrote:If you interpret his invisibility as a martial skill utterly perfected (as I do) then the unfading represents simply that he was tiring. Brinn was making a dent -- but the scales of the situation were such that this is how it manifested. Sort of like attacking a tank with your bare hands - if your really, really good, you might consider it a point won if, before you buy it, you could take out the antenna that lets the tank radio in time that you were squished. So in this way, the author was letting us know that Brinn was not entirely effectless. This is pretty important since Brinn is measuring his worth.

I viewed it as though Brinn was bringing the Guardian to the point where he could finally begin hurting him, but hadn't yet. Although I guess bringing him from super-Haruchai down to Haruchai could be considered hurting him.

I want to BUMP! this thread with an idea I've had.

This is with respect to the problem with Berek placing a Haruchai at the Isle of the One Tree when he created the Staff of Law, when the Haruchai did not find the Lords and the Land until Kevin's time.

Perhaps Berek didn't directly install the Ak-Haru.

Suppose, being a seer and an oracle, he not only foresaw that a Guardian would be necessary, but he also foresaw that this would not be immediately necessary (and mayhaps even exactly when it would be necessary). Furthermore, he also foresaw that one day someone would come to Revelstone who would fit the bill. (BTW, is "foresaw" correct? I think not.)

So he left some sort of note or Ward or artwork or something in Revelstone. And one day, a long while later, a Bloodguard, one who though accomplished didn't quite fit in with the other Bloodguard, stumbles upon this message from Berek, realizes what he must to, and in true Haruchai form, builds a dugout or even swims to the Isle, adopts a lotus position, and waits for a few thousand years.

Like it? This has the admirable quality (IMO) of operating along similar premises established in the land (Kevin's Wards, etc.)

Although I REALLY like your theory, there's a flaw. In the beginning of his speech, Brinn says:

"There is a tale among the Haruchai, a legend preserved by the old tellers from the farthest distance of our past, long ages before our people ever encountered Kevin Landwaster and the Lords of the Land."

ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol - himself - existed loooooooong before he would in your scenario. A shame, really, because your idea is a great, entirely new way of thinking about it!

My theory is that Berek did, indeed, know a Haruchai named ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol, they travelled to the One Tree, and ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol stayed there, becoming its Guardian. Berek knew that:

"...the path which leads to ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is unknown, has never been known. It is said that this path must not be known - that it may only be found by one who knows without knowledge and has not come seeking the thing he seeks."

And so he (and whatever other travelling companions he had) didn't tell anyone about it. But it's also possible that Berek told Damelon, who told Loric, who told Kevin, who would then not have been entirely unaware of who was laying siege to Revelstone. Maybe he thought, "Ah! Here's the people that my great-grandfather spoke of!" And maybe his knowledge of them made gave him the ability to impress them as much as he did. Unintentionally, of course, as he wouldn't have laid it on so thick if he'd known how extravagently they'd react! (Although if he'd known what ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol had taken upon himself, he maybe should have known better. *sigh* I don't know! )

None of this explains how Berek came to know ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol in the first place. But hey, he was a well-travelled guy!

So maybe ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol was able to survive entirely alone on the Isle for thousands of years. However, it may be that other Haruchai occasionally found him, while travelling with others as Brinn and Cail were, and "renewed" him. If only one found him, there would be none to go back to the Westron Mountains and tell the story, thus revealing where he was. If there were more than one, those returning would keep their mouths & minds shut, so that the path would remain unknown.

Wayfriend wrote:So he left some sort of note or Ward or artwork or something in Revelstone.

Uh...don't mean to be a party pooper, but how could Berek have left something in Revelstone? The place didn't exist yet. The Unhomed Giants didn't build it until Damelon's time. The center of power in Berek's time was the capital city of Doriendor Corishev.

Good point, MM. I hadn't even considered that. Although it's always possible that Berek foresaw the Giants and Revelstone. Still, he'd have had to leave his message elsewhere. Maybe Kevin's Watch?

I find the subject of ak-haru very interesting. I have a theory of my own.
Picture this. We do not actually see the Guardian of the One Tree until Brinn relates his tale of aHKA to Covenant. My perception is that the Guardian took on the Haruchai ideal of aHKA simply because Brinn was the combatant. Had a Giant exhibited the will to fight the Guardian, then perhaps he would have been a Giant in form.
I give you a quote from TOT. Brinn has just defeated the Guardian, and is replying to Covenant's question of "You're not Brinn"...."Are you?":

Brinn's expression did not waver. Perhaps there was a smile in his eyes; it was difficult to see in the early light. "I am who I am," he said evenly. "Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. The Guardian of the One Tree. Brinn of the Haruchai. And many other names. Thus I am renewed from age to age, until the end."

It is that passage more than anything else that led me to the previously mentioned conclusion. It is just speculation, but it is what I felt while reading it. Brinn also said "I perceive him to be ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol." I perceive....... therefore it is that I feel the Guardian would have taken on the physical appearance of the ideas of the combatant.

Fist and Faith wrote:

Azurophyte wrote:There was no guardian at the One Tree in Berek's time. Berek placed him there to prevent anyone reaching it again. Findail expressly said that.

Gee, if only someone could find that quote.

Here's the quote from WGW, Chapter 2:

With a stiff shrug, Findail turned away. But before he could depart, Covenant interposed, "Just a minute." He felt half mad with fear and impossible decisions; but a fragment of lucidity had come to him, and he thought he saw another way in which he had been betrayed. Lena had told him that he was Berek Halfhand reborn. And the Lords he had known had believed that. What had gone wrong? "We couldn't get a branch of the One Tree. There was no way. But it's been done before. How did Berek do it?"
Findail paused at the wall, answered over his shoulder. "The Worm was not made restive by his approach, for he did not win his way with combat. In that age, the One Tree had no Guardian. It was he himself who gave the Tree its ward, setting the Guardian in place so that the vital wood of the world's life would not again be touched or broken."

The passage alerts us to the fact that apparently, the Guardian fulfills his charge as soon as someone confronts him in combat: note that Findail says "for he did not win his way with combat", which seems to suggest that it wasn't Covenant's wild magic which first started to rouse the Worm, but Brinn's and aHKA's battle itself. To make sure this happens, though, you need to place a very good warrior as a guardian, or it might happen that a better warrior comes along and defeats him before the Worm is roused. Therefore aHKA is a paragon of martial prowess; but was it originally a human being, or something created by Berek? What is said by aHKA himself seems to suggest the former is true; if Berek created a specific being for the post, he could have simply made it immortal - or timeless - like Amok was. If this was not possible, he could have created aHKA so that it would "sleep" while not needed, and it would awaken when needed. The fact that Berek didn't create this being suggests either that he couldn't, or that he wouldn't; in both cases, the original aHKA was a human being once. Why a Haruchai? Here comes the crux of the dilemma: it is never said explicitly that the FIRST aHKA was a Haruchai. True, Brinn speaks of old legends dating back to before the Vow, but the Old Lords lived an extremely long life, as we were explained in the First Chronicles. For all we know, things might have happened this way:

1) Berek places the original Guardian, who wasn't a Haruchai.

2) Sometime after Berek returns with the Staff of Law, a Haruchai, or a group of Haruchai, learn of this Guardian and of his prowess at arms (if the Guardian was a companion to Berek in his quest, maybe he had more, and they shared the tale so that it eventually reached even the Haruchai on their mountain lands).

3) The Haruchai find and battle the Guardian (to prove his worth?) and defeats him, becoming the next Guardian.

4) Either the new Guardian had companions who saw the battle and told the tale ("He defeated the greatest warrior of the world, so he's obviously the pinnacle of our skills; and since he has obviously mastered them, and mastered his spirit, he holds our meaning within him"), or the Haruchai somehow learned of his victory through the bond they all share.

5) The legend began to circulate, that aHKA (perhaps it wasn't Berek who gave him this name, and note that FIndail never calls the Guardian by that name; maybe the Haruchai, when the first of them was appointed Guardian, granted him this honorific title among their people) was the greatest of the Haruchai and the only one who held their meaning.

All of this might have happened during Berek's, Damelon's or Loric's lifetime, and STILL long before the meeting between Kevin and the Haruchai, and the swearing of the Vow...

Well, I don't know how much I made myself understood, I've been kind of groping in the dark, but I wished to share my thoughts on the matter

Excellent post, Xar!

First off, sorry i ahvent been on in a while, otherwise i would have had bitchin time pickin apart this thread. Secondly, i like the concept of the last reply, and it made me think. Mabye the gaurdian doesnt HAVE to be a haruchai lets say a giant comes along, beats the gaurdian. Does HE now become the gaurdian?

That is exactly my point... we are told that Berek placed the Guardian himself, and we are told that there is a Haruchai legend claiming aHKA to be the greatest of the Haruchai and the one who holds the meaning of their people, and that apparently the latter is also the former. But nowhere we are told that this legend dates back exactly to the moment Berek placed the Guardian; if Kevin lived over a thousand years (and only died violently, keep that in mind), then we could possibly suppose that the Old Lords lived at least a thousand years on average - that's roughly 3.000 years between Berek's creation of the Staff of Law and the Haruchai meeting Kevin. Time enough for the Guardian to have been replaced and for the legend of aHKA to have been spread among the Haruchai, I would guess.

Besides, there is another, possibly lesser thing to consider: while the Haruchai are certainly valiant, would Berek be so "racist" as to establish that the Guardian must always be a Haruchai? Because that would mean that if the hypothetical Giant had found the Isle and somehow defeated the Guardian, who would take the Guardian's place? I would find it more believable that Berek had created the Guardianship so that it could befall on the shoulders of any kind of people - maybe not evil creatures, but at least all humans, probably; this way, he wouldn't have to rely on the Guardian only being defeated by Haruchai, and at the same time, he would ensure the Guardian to be as strong as possible, no matter what his or her blood.

Coincidentally, this also sidesteps the pitfalls of the hypothetical "Haruchai companion of Berek's" theory - if Berek simply crafted the Guardian without any specific race or kin in mind, then the first Guardian (and maybe others, we don't know about) could have been any kind of human (or even something else).

Hope it clarifies a bit more the theory I tried to weave

Holy crap!!! This is fun!!!

"There is a tale among the Haruchai, a legend preserved by the old tellers from the farthest distance of our past, long ages before our people ever encountered Kevin Landwaster and the Lords of the Land."

Yes, it's true that this doesn't give us any clear idea of how long ago the legend began. How long ago is "the farthest distance of our past" and "long ages before...Kevin"? Although I don't claim to have a more correct answer, my impression is that the legend began long before Berek. It just didn't seem that Brinn, Durris, and all them thought of Bannor, who was 3,500 years before their time, as half-way to the "farthest distance of [their] past." I got the feeling that he was an historical figure for them. "Did not Bannor speak to you of this?" "In all the ages of that service, it was the grief of the Bloodguard that they gave no direct battle to Corruption." I know, I'm saying "impression," "seem," and "feeling," but I've just always thought of it this way.

Xar wrote:Besides, there is another, possibly lesser thing to consider: while the Haruchai are certainly valiant, would Berek be so "racist" as to establish that the Guardian must always be a Haruchai? Because that would mean that if the hypothetical Giant had found the Isle and somehow defeated the Guardian, who would take the Guardian's place? I would find it more believable that Berek had created the Guardianship so that it could befall on the shoulders of any kind of people - maybe not evil creatures, but at least all humans, probably; this way, he wouldn't have to rely on the Guardian only being defeated by Haruchai, and at the same time, he would ensure the Guardian to be as strong as possible, no matter what his or her blood.

This is a complicated issue! First of all, why would Berek have wanted the Guardian to be defeated at all? If Findail is to be believed, Berek didn't want "the vital wood" to be "touched or broken again." That being the case, I wonder what knowledge Brinn, or any contestant between Brinn and the original Guardian, had that made the post-fight aHKA go against Berek's wishes. Because Covenant certainly could have cut a branch off, or roused the Worm and destroyed the Earth.

As for the "racist" angle, we don't know that Berek put the Guardian there, and gave the Guardian this ability. Maybe the "renewing" ability of aHKA already existed before Berek ever met him. And maybe Berek thought, "Hmmm, I'm gonna need somebody to guard this Tree when I'm done with it. Who can I get that has the best chance of holding off whoever comes along..... *snaps fingers* I got it!! Hey Ken!! You busy?" Maybe others, even Giants, came along and lost - and aHKA was NOT renewed those times. And maybe other Haruchai stumbled onto the Isle, learned the measure of their worth, and either became part of the renewing process or not, depending on aHKA's criteria. (Meaning maybe you get to renew him even if you lose, as long as you never gave up, as I discussed in Dissecting.)

So many possibilities! I don't really have a problem with your theory, I just like mine better.

Excellent points, Fist.

But getting back to the original Guardian. I for one believe that he was NOT Haruchai. I give you a quote from TWL:

"....And to the west, where the Haruchai lived, there was no knowledge of the One Tree. He accepted that. If Berek had gone west to find the One Tree, he would surely have encountered Brinn's people."

Spoiler

These are Covenant's thoughts after he redeemed the Haruchai from abomination, and retrieved the krill from Glimmermere.
His decision was to go east, to the Sea.

Based on that one passage alone, I would have to conclude that the original Guardian was not Haruchai.
I also believe that the Guardian WAS NOT aHKA UNTIL Brinn defeated him......after all, Brinn's words were "I perceive him to be ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol." Therefore the Haruchai legend was self fulfilling.

That's a good point, ur-bane, and I understand your interpretation. And, again, it could be right as easily as mine. But I think it makes things more complicated. Let me explain.

If I'm right, Berek did know Brinn's people. Or at least he knew ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. Maybe they met somewhere or other that might also be described as "the edge of the Earth," and aHKA agreed to become the Guardian of the One Tree.

Two things should be mentioned about my theory:
1) Findail always refers to him as "the Guardian," never as "ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol." This doesn't bother me, because Findail would certainly have been interested in this person as the Guardian, and not remotely interested in him as an important figure to the Haruchai.
2) We don't have any reason to believe that Kevin did NOT know of the Haruchai. Maybe Berek told Damelon, who told Loric, who told Kevin, who, when the Haruchai army surrounded Revelstone, said, "Ah, at last, we meet the people Berek spoke of."

This seems sort of straight-forward to me. The only thing we don't know about is how aHKA ever got this renewing ability.

But your idea adds more unknowns. How did the Haruchai ever come to think the meaning of their lives was held by a non-Haruchai? Are there beings of other races, or even species, in there with Brinn? Giants? Hustin?? I guess that's what I like about mine - less unknowns. We just have to imagine that Berek knew at least this one Haruchai, but, if anybody knew this, they didn't tell Covenant.

However, in your favor, Brinn's wording - "I conceive him to be ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol" - is very suspicious. SRD doesn't seem to say things without specific reason. Also, the Elohim didn't know of the Haruchai. They certainly knew before Findail got to the One Tree that it had a Guardian, and it would be odd if they didn't even know what race he was from.

Hellfire! I just don't know!!

Fist and Faith wrote:That's a good point, ur-bane, and I understand your interpretation. And, again, it could be right as easily as mine. But I think it makes things more complicated. Let me explain.

If I'm right, Berek did know Brinn's people. Or at least he knew ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. Maybe they met somewhere or other that might also be described as "the edge of the Earth," and aHKA agreed to become the Guardian of the One Tree.

Two things should be mentioned about my theory:
1) Findail always refers to him as "the Guardian," never as "ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol." This doesn't bother me, because Findail would certainly have been interested in this person as the Guardian, and not remotely interested in him as an important figure to the Haruchai.
2) We don't have any reason to believe that Kevin did NOT know of the Haruchai. Maybe Berek told Damelon, who told Loric, who told Kevin, who, when the Haruchai army surrounded Revelstone, said, "Ah, at last, we meet the people Berek spoke of."

This seems sort of straight-forward to me. The only thing we don't know about is how aHKA ever got this renewing ability.

But your idea adds more unknowns. How did the Haruchai ever come to think the meaning of their lives was held by a non-Haruchai? Are there beings of other races, or even species, in there with Brinn? Giants? Hustin?? I guess that's what I like about mine - less unknowns. We just have to imagine that Berek knew at least this one Haruchai, but, if anybody knew this, they didn't tell Covenant.

That's the problem I tried to tackle with my theory... if the original Guardian was not a Haruchai and it was only later that a Haruchai would find and defeat him, starting the legend of aHKA, all of the questions you raise would be solved. Let me explain:

We just have to imagine that Berek knew at least this one Haruchai, but, if anybody knew this, they didn't tell Covenant.

Not necessarily, if the first Guardian was not a Haruchai, and was placed there by Berek. As for the question I was asked earlier:

why would Berek have wanted the Guardian to be defeated at all?

Well, there is no such thing as an "invincible being" without the possibility of corruption; plus, Berek might have purposefully chosen to leave the Guardian (marginally) vulnerable, to allow for its renewal. After all, the weight of ages is heavy upon all mortal minds, how much more so for a lone guardian whose only appointed task is to guard a tree on a remote isle? Maybe Berek perceived this to be an act of mercy towards the "current" Guardian - allowing the Guardian to be renewed in body AND spirit, so as never to lose hope or succumb to despair.
If this is true, then Berek purposefully made the Guardian so that it could be defeated (although not easily ): and it stands to reason that it could only be defeated by those with the courage and strength to prove themselves superior - therefore, proving themselves worthy of taking on the mantle of Guardianship. I've always thought that the fact the Guardian placed himself in such a situation when Brinn could only defeat him by plummeting with him off a cliff was sort of a test... how many evil-hearted creatures would have sacrificed themselves that way, either for their allies or for their own racial pride? Probably, the Guardian could be defeated only by sacrificing oneself, and taking its place. This way, Berek would have been sure that no evil creature would ever touch the Tree, and that all those who would defeat the Guardian would renew him and make him stronger by becoming the Guardian themselves.

2) We don't have any reason to believe that Kevin did NOT know of the Haruchai. Maybe Berek told Damelon, who told Loric, who told Kevin, who, when the Haruchai army surrounded Revelstone, said, "Ah, at last, we meet the people Berek spoke of."

Ah, well, we don't have any reason to believe that Berek KNEW of the Haruchai either, or that Kevin knew before they surrounded Revelstone... we are never given any hint that Berek knew of them (and surely if Berek had had a Haruchai companion, he would have been sung of as a wonder in later times, as a honoured companion, ally and peerless fighter, possibly - even if just by the Haruchai. The Bloodguard was remembered by them even several millennia after it disbanded!

This seems sort of straight-forward to me. The only thing we don't know about is how aHKA ever got this renewing ability.

See above; if I'm right, the renewing ability was the Guardian's from the start, given to him by Berek so that it could renew its spirit and that it could ensure its continued existence without unnatural alterations or the possible fall into despair.

How did the Haruchai ever come to think the meaning of their lives was held by a non-Haruchai?

Following my theory, they didn't originally; maybe a group of them heard of a "mysterious Guardian at the edge of the world, charged with the protection of some great secret" and decided to see for themselves, possibly to test themselves against him. A Haruchai met the Guardian and defeated him, becoming his next incarnation; his surviving allies spread the word of his victory and, since he had defeated a Guardian who was considered undefeatable and had chosen to take its place, he was obviously considered the greatest of the Haruchai, the one who had decided to stay behind to keep his ward and because he no longer had anything to prove - he held in himself the meaning of his race. Therefore, he became aHKA in Haruchai lore, and the Haruchai began their endless quest for him.

Are there beings of other races, or even species, in there with Brinn? Giants? Hustin??

It is possible, although I don't know whether it is probable or not Why would Giants wish to defeat the Guardian? They wouldn't be so curious as to wish to find out what the mysterious Guardian protects that they would fight to the death for it! But of course, it could be that the Guardian's previous incarnations counted among them Haruchai, Bhrathair, people of the Land and who knows who else... although it's a fairly safe bet to say that the Guardian was never renewed through an evil human or other evil creature.

Xar wrote:

why would Berek have wanted the Guardian to be defeated at all?

Well, there is no such thing as an "invincible being" without the possibility of corruption; plus, Berek might have purposefully chosen to leave the Guardian (marginally) vulnerable, to allow for its renewal. After all, the weight of ages is heavy upon all mortal minds, how much more so for a lone guardian whose only appointed task is to guard a tree on a remote isle? Maybe Berek perceived this to be an act of mercy towards the "current" Guardian - allowing the Guardian to be renewed in body AND spirit, so as never to lose hope or succumb to despair.
If this is true, then Berek purposefully made the Guardian so that it could be defeated (although not easily ): and it stands to reason that it could only be defeated by those with the courage and strength to prove themselves superior - therefore, proving themselves worthy of taking on the mantle of Guardianship.

I'll get back to this in a second.

Xar wrote:I've always thought that the fact the Guardian placed himself in such a situation when Brinn could only defeat him by plummeting with him off a cliff was sort of a test... how many evil-hearted creatures would have sacrificed themselves that way, either for their allies or for their own racial pride? Probably, the Guardian could be defeated only by sacrificing oneself, and taking its place. This way, Berek would have been sure that no evil creature would ever touch the Tree, and that all those who would defeat the Guardian would renew him and make him stronger by becoming the Guardian themselves.

I guess this is a matter of perspective. I consider the Islamic suicide bombers to be evil, but they certainly disagree. I don't have trouble imagining that, during the war, Berek faced foes who sacrificed themselves for the King, or even their fellow soldiers, whether they were taught the mindset that the suicide bombers have, or had no choice but to obey.

And with that in mind, I'm back to my question: Why would Berek have wanted the Guardian to be defeated at all? If the Guardian is renewed by being defeated, and he's defeated by someone Berek would have considered evil, then Berek's intent is surely lost.

I'm thinking that defeating ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol is not the only way to prove your worth, and not the criteria that aHKA uses to judge whether or not his opponent should be part of the renewing process. SRD certainly agrees with the idea that victory is not the measure of anyone's worth. This was his response at Elohimfest to my question about Kevin. Mhoram understood the concept that service enables service, but Kevin could find no worth in himself without victory. So Mhoram was able to be true, but Kevin was not. (btw, I submitted this whole topic to SRD in the Gradual Interview. Maybe his answer will prove me wrong, as his answer proved me wrong in that huge debate I had with Furls Fire about Kevin. )

Xar wrote:

Fist and Faith wrote:2) We don't have any reason to believe that Kevin did NOT know of the Haruchai. Maybe Berek told Damelon, who told Loric, who told Kevin, who, when the Haruchai army surrounded Revelstone, said, "Ah, at last, we meet the people Berek spoke of."

Ah, well, we don't have any reason to believe that Berek KNEW of the Haruchai either, or that Kevin knew before they surrounded Revelstone... we are never given any hint that Berek knew of them (and surely if Berek had had a Haruchai companion, he would have been sung of as a wonder in later times, as a honoured companion, ally and peerless fighter, possibly - even if just by the Haruchai. The Bloodguard was remembered by them even several millennia after it disbanded!

All possible. And things like this are why I don't say your theory can't be right. I'm just saying that the fact that Covenant never heard rumor that Berek knew of the Haruchai is not proof that Berek didn't know of the Haruchai. If one of the first things the Earthpower had Berek do - when the war was only recently over, and there wasn't a very big population, and no Lords - was make the Staff of Law, then he may have had only a few companions. Heck, Ged was travelling the world in his boat all alone. It's possible that Berek was the only one who ever met ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol, having found him by going where the Earthpower told him to go.

Xar wrote:

Fist and Faith wrote:How did the Haruchai ever come to think the meaning of their lives was held by a non-Haruchai?

Following my theory, they didn't originally; maybe a group of them heard of a "mysterious Guardian at the edge of the world, charged with the protection of some great secret" and decided to see for themselves, possibly to test themselves against him. A Haruchai met the Guardian and defeated him, becoming his next incarnation; his surviving allies spread the word of his victory and, since he had defeated a Guardian who was considered undefeatable...

In your theory, this is the beginning of the aHKA legend, and the only part of your theory I truly have a problem with. The Haruchai aren't terribly concerned with the considerations of other people. Sure, the rumors that non-Haruchai had about a legendary fighter might make them curious enough to go fight him. But if one of them defeated him, I think they would more likely have said "Huh! They considered this guy unbeatable? He wasn't all that." If the aHKA legend never existed, and Brinn had found a guy they had heard was the best, and he defeated him, I don't think Cail would have said, "It must be that Brinn holds the meaning of us," and started the legend. I think he would have said, "Well he wasn't as good as Brinn, that's for sure."

I think it's time someone posited that the Despiser and Kenaustin Ardenol are the same being. As both were attacked they became more and more substantial. QED.

And with one post by Believer, I am undone!