A Prosaic Confession

[Holsety]

TLC is a great way to milk the Covenant series for cash. Weren't both Runes and FR bestsellers? I think he would've been a fool not to write it.

I have managed to enjoy it OK but it's not as good as the first two chrons. I haven't read AATE. I'm still rooting for Linden though.

The thing I liked least about Fatal Revenant was the introduction of the insequent. I can't even remember what the explanation for them was. They seemed out of the ass.

[ussusimiel]

The thing I liked least about Fatal Revenant was the introduction of the insequent. I can't even remember what the explanation for them was. They seemed out of the ass.

[Avatar]

I'm with Murrin myself. AATE is by far the best book in the last chrons to date.

--A

[Cagliostro]

I'm struggling to read AATE, but I can't say if it is fair because of the time commitments I have these days. But if I was really into it, I would be plowing through the book. And I agree that it feels more like a chore to finish than a joy.

[Seareach]

Oh...oops...

Typical that the first time I don't drop by for a couple of weeks people start doing things that perhaps I should be moderating. Sorry all. I think I'll move this since there are now spoilers in it (despite the spoiler tags) so it's off to the AATE forum.

Oh, and for the record, I like The Last Chronicles. All four books! Sorry, couldn't help myself!

[Fist and Faith]

Showoff!

[dlbpharmd]

Oh, and for the record, I like The Last Chronicles. All four books! Sorry, couldn't help myself!

[shadowbinding shoe]

Oh...oops...

Typical that the first time I don't drop by for a couple of weeks people start doing things that perhaps I should be moderating. Sorry all. I think I'll move this since there are now spoilers in it (despite the spoiler tags) so it's off to the AATE forum.

Oh, and for the record, I like The Last Chronicles. All four books! Sorry, couldn't help myself!

So the last book is finished?

[Seareach]

Um...well he did announce the first draft was done on his webpage...so that at least is finished.

And *mwah* to you dlb & Fist.

[Zarathustra]

Spoiler

I personally think that the main problem with the Last Chrons is that SRD's strengths as a writer and storyteller are being strangled by the overcomplex plot and the sheer number of characters, powers and forces abroad in the Land. The Land itself is relatively simple and I feel that stories about it are better mirroring that. I know that the 2nd Chrons was more complicated than the 1st but the forces involved (except for the Elohim and Nom) generally stayed in their diverse places. In the Last Chrons there is confrontation after confrontation of a seemingly endless variety of forces from just about anywhere and they all seem capable of turning up willy-nilly.

And arguments about putting the earlier Chrons on a pedestal don't really stand up, IMO,

I couldn't agree more. I'd add that perhaps his famous focus on the ending (i.e. always knowing the end ahead of time, and then writing his way to it without knowing the middle parts) was a strength that has now become a weakness. Simply trusting himself to get there in a satisfactory way isn't good enough anymore. All the books lag in the middle. Well, they lag in the middle of each half-book section, until they reach the pre-planned end for each section. It really shows that he's feeling his way forward without a clear plan. It doesn't even really feel character-driven, despite all the character introspection. "Willy-nilly" was a good way to describe it. Sitting around until it's time for the climax is another way. Writing with a checklist of expected encounters (1. Haruchai, 2. friendly land inhabitant, 3. kresh, 4. Ramen, 5. ur-viles, etc.) would be another way to describe it. It feels simultaneously forced and unorganized, until we get to the "point" of each section and then it's amazing for a chapter or two.

[shadowbinding shoe]

Um...well he did announce the first draft was done on his webpage...so that at least is finished.

And *mwah* to you dlb & Fist.

When did that happen? (looked in his website but couldn't find it) Does that mean the book will be published before 2012 ends?

[Vraith]

Um...well he did announce the first draft was done on his webpage...so that at least is finished.

And *mwah* to you dlb & Fist.

When did that happen? (looked in his website but couldn't find it) Does that mean the book will be published before 2012 ends?

No, he usually does at least 2 rewrites, and there's the reading and approval process of the publishing/editing side. IIRC he said he was a little ahead of sched. for 1st draft finish but not to get hopes up cuz he anticipated a real struggle doing rewrites [or something roughly like that].

[Orlion]

Um...well he did announce the first draft was done on his webpage...so that at least is finished.

And *mwah* to you dlb & Fist.

When did that happen? (looked in his website but couldn't find it) Does that mean the book will be published before 2012 ends?

No, he usually does at least 2 rewrites, and there's the reading and approval process of the publishing/editing side. IIRC he said he was a little ahead of sched. for 1st draft finish but not to get hopes up cuz he anticipated a real struggle doing rewrites [or something roughly like that].

Such pessimism is normal, also. I expect it in 2013. ETA: Second draft in July. Third draft Dec or Jan. Delivery and Acceptance Feb. Book Oct. 2013.

That's if he does actually follow the same pattern as previous. This is the hardest book for him to write.

[Seareach]

Um...well he did announce the first draft was done on his webpage...so that at least is finished.

And *mwah* to you dlb & Fist.

When did that happen? (looked in his website but couldn't find it) Does that mean the book will be published before 2012 ends?

It was from the news section:

THE LAST DARK: progress report 1


THE LAST DARK (what I call Covenant 10: Book Four of "The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant") now exists. In other words, I've finished the first draft. It is 1176 pages in manuscript. At this stage, AGAINST ALL THINGS ENDING was 1181, so the difference is trivial.

As usual, we are still a long way from publication. I have at least a year of rewriting to do before I can hope to approximate a final version; and my publishers can't get started doing their part until then. But (alas) I may need more time than that. THE LAST DARK has been an extremely difficult book to write (at times it felt actively impossible), and I wrote it under extremely difficult circumstances. As a result, this first draft contains more authorial errors and miscalculations than my first drafts usually do. As a result, the challenges of rewriting will be especially complex. Look for further progress reports at my usual intervals.

12/5/11

Vwraith is right: rewriting and all that jazz. It's scheduled for late 2013. Anyway, this is getting way off topic. Sorry!

[bikebryan]

It always has taken Donaldson a long time to write from conception to final draft. It's mainly HIS problem: he overwrites. The forward to Gilden-Fire even says this. He admits he tend to WAY overwrite so it takes him a while to slim things down. I've given up on him being able to recognize this and just slim it down in the first place.

[ussusimiel]

All the books lag in the middle. Well, they lag in the middle of each half-book section, until they reach the pre-planned end for each section. It really shows that he's feeling his way forward without a clear plan. It doesn't even really feel character-driven, despite all the character introspection.

I agree with this. One of the things that occurred to me is that it is often during quiet periods in the 1st and 2nd Chrons we get the backstory of some character or other. In LFB it was easy because there was so much of Covenant's story to be told. In the 2nd Chrons there is the long drawn out backstory of Linden, but we also get Sunder's, Hollian's, Seadreamer's and Pitchwife's tales among many others along the way. So, what might have seemed like introspective or quiet moments are actually further opportunities for story-telling (playing to SRD's strength) and real character development. One of the frustrations of the Last Chrons is the anonymity of so many characters and I am now beginning to see that this may be a lost opportunity. At this stage I want to know more about Bhapa, Marthiir, Coldspray and co.

Compare also how the actions in the plots differ between WGW and AATE. Take the meeting with the Sunbane afflicted ur-viles that leads to Hollian's death. Here action and plot are integral. Now think of how the action ended up on the Hazard. The two Insequent wave their hands and lo the whole group is transported to another place. Now that's not to say that the scene on the Hazard is not good (it's one of my favourite so far in AATE) but consider how the exertion of power by the Insequent has no real significance. And for my taste there is way too much empty action in the Last Chrons whereas one of the strengths of the first two Chrons is that no action was insignifcant, action and plot were intimately related.

This may be an inherent problem with the Insequent. They don't really occupy any true place in the world of the Land. The Haruchai and the Elohim, although utterly different, fit into that world. The Insequent, although human, can treat the Haruchi like children and have powers that at times surpass the Elohim. How is this possible? And so far, I have intuited no satisfactory answer for this and that leaves me with the constant feeling that everything the Insequent do is akin to deus ex machina. Deeply frustrating

u.

[MsMary]

So, this thread was moved leaving no trace in its forum of origin? Does the thread author know? I'm assuming he's not here, since he said he hasn't read AATE yet...

Seems like some notification in the SRD forum would be left.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

I appreciate your concern, I was PM'd about it. It's cool.

[Zarathustra]

U, I like the Insequent, actually. I think they're one of the best new things about this Chronicles. I don't like how they're used too often as plot shortcuts (as you mentioned), but as characters, as powers, as shoe-horned plot devices, I'm cool with them. The way SRD has fit them into the history and the present of the Chronicles is an astonishing bit of retro-fitting.

[Seareach]

So, this thread was moved leaving no trace in its forum of origin? Does the thread author know? I'm assuming he's not here, since he said he hasn't read AATE yet...

Seems like some notification in the SRD forum would be left.

Yes, he was and what kind of notification should I have left? I wasn't going to leave a shadow topic as (if I understand correctly it leaves all the past posts and some of them have spoilers in them).