Kevin's Watch

Surely you haven't missed the almost mechanical repetition of extremely simple rhythms within long stanzas of many Soundgarden songs? It's part of their basic sound, which is probably why I don't like them as much as other bands within the same milieu.

No, honestly I don't think that's a fair criticism of Soundgarden at all, except for a few songs like Outshined. (I'd say that more accurately describes the clips of Reverend Horton Heat which you provided ... though honestly I got bored with them pretty quick and didn't listen to the whole clips.) I've only been playing drums for a few years, but from a detailed study of at least 20 of their songs, I think Matt Cameron is one of the best rock drummers out there. Top 20 at least.

No, honestly I don't think that's a fair criticism of Soundgarden at all, except for a few songs like Outshined.

Rusty Cage
Slaves and Bulldozers
Jesus Christ Pose
Face Pollution
Somewhere
Room a Thousand Years Wide
Mind Riot
Drawing Flies
Holy Water (love the bridge, it makes the repetition worthwhile)
New Damage
My Wave (!!!!!!!!)
Fell On Black Days (I like this track a lot, but it is repetitive)
Spoonman
Black Hole Sun (does have a bit of a backbeat though, though an unusually lugubrious one)
The Day I Tried To Live
...

Ok, practically the whole Badmotorfinger album and many other well known Soundgarden songs besides have long, simple, rhythmically repetitive stanzas. I'm quite comfortable saying this is a signature part of their sound. It reminds me a bit of the first Helmet album, though not to that extreme.

Actually I figured something out listening to those tracks again. I think monotonous guitar is actually a larger problem than the rhythmic repetition, although the effect feels particularly insipid to me when both motifs happen at once. They also seem to use dissonance to excess at times. So it leaves you with a pretty angst-y feel a lot of the time, sometimes it works but other times it's a bit too much. Overall the music and lyrics have a quite jaded aspect, perhaps even approaching nihilism. It could be that this effect is cultivated, but it seems to be organic in any case. By the way, I'm not saying I don't like Badmotorfinger or other Soundgarden songs, I actually do, but a lot of it I find annoying at the same time.

I'd say that more accurately describes the clips of Reverend Horton Heat which you provided ...

Haha. That's ludicrous.

I think the criticisms of the guitarist are far more and accurate and fair. The dissonance, feedback, and distortion annoys me at times, especially in the most recent live performances I've seen on Youtube in support of the latest album. It seems like a substitute for actual skill or musical composition. Luckily, that's balanced by Cornell, who not only writes beautiful melodies, but also plays more straight guitar.

Most rock songs are repetitive. Verse, bridge, chorus, repeat. Repetition doesn't mean lack of complexity, especially if subsequent iterations have alternate takes on the main theme. While there are often straight-forward beats in the verses of their songs, there is always at least one part that is a freakin' jam. And multiple time signatures are a frequent element of their songs.

I don't know what your music experience is, but playing as opposed to listening can give insight into complexity and subtlety that non-musicians often miss (I've played bass, keyboard, drums ... formed my own band, played half a dozen cities). The study of music with the view of reproducing it yourself gives an unprecedented clarity of what's involved in doing so. I'm talking about my personal experience with these songs. So far you've made some claims, and composed a list of songs, but I don't see that as evidence. I've also provided some detailed analysis which included evidence in the form of time signatures, meter, etc. And it discussed specifically the issue of syncopation which you said was missing. The original paper was 76 pages, so there's more if you're interested.

Don Exnihilote wrote:

Zarathustra wrote:I'd say that more accurately describes the clips of Reverend Horton Heat which you provided ...

Haha. That's ludicrous.

I'm trying to keep this discussion civil and respectful, because musical tastes are so personal, and critiquing a favorite band often boils down to a critique of one's personal tastes. I'm not really comfortable trashing music that others find enjoyable. But trust me, I've taken it easy on RHH so far. Aside from pointing out that the drum beat of the clips you've provided is more mechanical, simplistic, and monotonous than most stuff from Soundgarden, I'll just say that this kind of music isn't for me. I'm glad you find something in it worthwhile. Maybe you should start a thread about them.

Z, I reported a true phenomenon that had always interested me -- falling asleep at the extremely loud rock concert of a band I liked a lot at the time -- and given your apparent interest as well I chose to expand upon it. Feel free to love Soundgarden and hate Reverend Horton Heat to your heart's content, I don't think either opinion is unreasonable, and I have friends that feel similarly. I have to say that I am still interested in the emotional effect of Soundgarden's music upon me, there is something very unsettled and dissonant about it in my opinion and perhaps even morose. Say what you will, but the boys make an impression, and it's often a good one. But I think one of the main reactions it does not engender in me is the urge to move in any appreciable way, which is in stark contrast to RHH which is extremely propulsive IMO. I don't fully understand the causes of either but it's interesting to me to speculate. I hope you don't take that personally.

It actually makes sense that it's fully intended now that you mention it. In fact I think there is something very commercial about their anti-commercialism. If your music says that you don't give a fuck, but that message is intentional and even cultivated, isn't that ironic? All of the Seattle bands had a need to give the mainstream the bird, but perhaps Soundgarden did that less as a pose and more as a musical style. Perhaps displeasing the listener, or at least tweaking him, is being considered as interchangeable with artistic integrity.

I still love quite a few songs from Batmotorfinger and Superunknown. I've just never gotten tired of "Rusty Cage", Outshined", "Jesus Christ Pose", "My Wave", "Fell On Black Days", "Head Down", "Fresh Tendrils", and "Spoonman". I admit that "Black Hole Sun" has gotten tiresome for me, though. Next to Alice In Chains, this is my favorite grunge band.

The song has a nice slow sizzle to it that has always attracted me. One of my favorite songs from Superunknown.

FRESH TENDRILS
(Written by Chris Cornell, Matt Cameron)

Long time coming
It seemed to take me through
Long time coming
Many served the few
And long to taste the shame
That bows down before you

Long time coming
It seemed to get me by
Long time coming
It seemed to satisfy
You longed to taste the shame
That everybody tries

Shame shame
Throw yourself away
Give me little bits of more than I can take
If it sits upon your tongue Or naked in your eyes
Give me little bits of More than I can try

Throw yourself away
Throw yourself away

Long time coming
It seemed to take me through
Long time coming
Many served the few
And long to taste the shame
That bows down before you

Yeah

Shame shame
Throw yourself away
Give me little bits of More than I can take
If it sits upon your tongueOr naked in your eyes
Give me little bits of More than I can try

(Throw yourself away)

Long time coming, long time coming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfPGqXxdrfk