Soundgarden

[Zarathustra]

The new album, King Animal, came out a few weeks ago. I didn't really like it at first, but it's growing on me, especially the songs written by Chris Cornell. They sound like something off his solo CDs (one of which I really love, Euphoria Morning ... seriously, pick it up to see CC's full range of writing styles). "Bones of Birds" is particularly beautiful. "Halfway There" is another classic Cornell tune. But the bassist also writes a few good ones (Taree, Nonstate Actor). Probably the best harder song on the CD is written by the three lesser known members, "By Crooked Steps."

But while these songs are decent--and let's face it, probably better than anything else on the radio today--they still fall far short of the glory days of Soundgarden. I have loved this band since my college days in the early 90s for their hard-rocking, well-played, intricately-crafted, eclectic-sounding brand of grunge. For me, they tap into the same spiritual vein as Tool, musically at least. There is something mystical and euphoric about them, a sweet-sadness pervasive in their music.

So what I look for in a new Soundgarden CD is:

1. Awesome songwriting. This band has more hits than misses, as far as I'm concerned. They have an astonishing number of really great tunes, considering how few albums they put out. Unfortunately, this CD falls well short in that criteria.

2. Amazing performance. Sadly, only the drummer (Matt Cameron) fills his 90s shoes. I'm not sure what the hell Kim Thayel is doing on this CD. His guitar sounds like Cornell's voice on a bad day (more on that later). His playing is uninspired, simplistic filler. Live, he's even worse. A bunch of feedback and crunchy guitar that makes you want to scratch an itch on your ear drums. Horrible. I used to love his sound. This is just sad.

And speaking of sad, since Cornell shred his voice, my final criterion has become:

3. Can he still hit the high notes? Does he sound like he has a chicken bone stuck in his throat? Do I feel sorry for him when he sings? Mostly, he sounds okay. Given how truly bad he has sounded in the past, he has come a long way (with a vocal coach, I've heard) nursing his cords back to health. He can hit the high notes, especially during good nights live. [His recent performance on Live on Letterman was eye opening. FFW to 1:38 and give him a minute. I never thought I'd hear notes like that coming out of his throat ever again.] But he definitely sounds rougher than he used to sound.

A lame video that compares "snapshots" of his voice through the years.

Anyone else out there love this band?

[Zarathustra]

Looking around on Youtube, I've discovered some Chris Cornell that I didn't know about. Apparently he did an acoustic tour for which he released a CD last year, Songbook. The reviews on Amazon are glowing, and the clips on Youtube are gorgeous.


Burden in My Hand.

Sweet Euphoria/Be Yourself

Black Hole Sun (If you've never heard an acoustic version of this, click now! It translates beautifully.)

Thank You (Led Zep cover)

[Vraith]

FAN!...Badmotorfinger especially I love, love, love...though I got a bit annoyed at all the Chris Cornell is GOD stuff for a while. I mean, I love him, and he's perfect for what they do and some other stuff he did is pretty good...
But hell, he did an "Ave Maria" that was one of the worst things I've ever heard...and Audioslave had some moments, but not great singing moments.

I'm trying to avoid hearing any of the new, cuz I suspect my wife will be buying it for me for xmas.

I hope to see the tour...they're supposed to be in my area in Feb.

[lucimay]

not a huge soundgarden fan but am a HUGE chris cornell fan.

will check it out tho as i do love his songwriting. thanks for the review.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

I once fell asleep at a Soundgarden concert. And I wasn't all that drunk, either.

[Zarathustra]

There was little time for sleep while I was protecting my girlfriend (now wife) from the assholes on the fringes of the mosh pit at the Soundgarden show we saw. Were you sleepy in general, or are you saying that the music was so boring that it was literally putting you to sleep? I couldn't imagine being that bored at any live show, honestly. And I've seen Bullet Boys/Winger/Cinderella tour (sad to say).

The new CD is definitely growing on me. And I got the Songbook CD for Christmas. The latter has fantastic sound quality, and gorgeous singing by Cornell.

[Vraith]

So I've given King Animal a few good listens and a little sinking in time.
I won't do a huge post on it, though I could.
Overall, it was definitely Soundgarden, and I like it...though I wish it had a couple tracks with more serious-mass-crashing-head-long into a wall-ness.
A few particulars that caught my attention in [mostly] good ways:

I like the line from "been away"....
'no one knows where the edge of the knife is.'

And from "bones of birds"...
'try to build a home//bones of birds//singing in the cold//and fall to earth'
though I found the song the worst/most boring...like one that didn't make the cut, and for good reason, for "superunknown."

"thousand days before" has a sort of blue-grass-descendant feel in the rhythm, guitar tone and arpeggiating especially under the verses.

"blood on the valley floor" one of the best...and there's an "Alice in Chains"-ish flavor in the vocals, both style of melodic line and harmonies.

"attrition" straightforward throwback to early metal days...I can hear any number of bands in the early-mid 70's writing this song.

"black saturday" Like it, and horn hits??? made me laugh.

"worse dreams" haven't decided yet...but there's something I like in the layering, and despite those it still leaves an aura/impression of some live jazzy improv.

"rowing" I like it...perhaps the most "unexpected" piece on the album with the strong chain-gang/work song basis/influence.

The constant down/bad thing: as Z said, most of the guitar work. Both playing and production.

[Vader]

A moshpit at a Soundgarden gig?

I saw them open for GnR back in 92 (together with Faith No More). Shepherd was too drunk or drugged to stand. A funny gig.

[sgt.null]

I Awake

had the album in my early 20's working at a Chinese restaurant in New Hampshire. Lee (the cook) spoke almost no English but learned the opening to this song and sang it to me one morning.

"you have a good day, good day..."

had no idea he listened to what i played.

i was a fan of Hiro Yamamoto and was sad when he left the band.

Circle of Power - Hiro sings

[lucimay]

the only band that ever put me to sleep was emerson lake and palmer! lol

[DukkhaWaynhim]

I think my favorite of CC's is Like A Stone. Pretty sure he wrote it, but I don't think it was Soundgarden. Maybe Audioslave?

[Zarathustra]

Yep, Audioslave. There's an acoustic version on Songbook. Honestly, I think Cornell has a couple dozen better songs, but it's pretty good.

[sgt.null]

I liked earlier Soundgarden better. but the only Seattle group I stuck with was Pearl Jam.

my favorite single album from any Seattle was Screaming Trees with Sweet Oblivion.

I was a huge fan of grunge and wish their was a resurgance.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

There was little time for sleep while I was protecting my girlfriend (now wife) from the assholes on the fringes of the mosh pit at the Soundgarden show we saw. Were you sleepy in general, or are you saying that the music was so boring that it was literally putting you to sleep? I couldn't imagine being that bored at any live show, honestly. And I've seen Bullet Boys/Winger/Cinderella tour (sad to say).

The new CD is definitely growing on me. And I got the Songbook CD for Christmas. The latter has fantastic sound quality, and gorgeous singing by Cornell.

Soundgarden has had their moments. I was a fan of Badmotorfinger (mostly) when it came out and I still like some of the songs on it -- actually only 1 that I really like: Holy Water, and that's just the bridge. Musically there is something faintly repetitious or industrial about them, a quality that leaves them unsatisfying, at least in my opinion.

I saw them for the Superunknown tour in New Orleans, Reverend Horton Heat opened for them and some other band I've long forgotten. The Rev flat out rocked that night, I was super into it, going crazy for their whole set. I'd never heard of RHH but after that show I immediately bought all their records. I think I like rock with boogie roots / groove / rhythmic complexity most of all, and that is one thing lacking in Soundgarden. Real syncopation perhaps, which is something I find in Tool's music in spades.

But Soundgarden definitely have their share of anthems, some of which I've been quite fond of at the time but they never really stuck with me. I'll give you an example. "Outshined" caught my attention when it first came out, and I even liked it for a while, but it is so rhythmically stupid and lyrically insipid I can't bear to hear 2 seconds of it now. "Rusty Cage" has some real moments of Motorhead-like rhythm and drive, but sets them up with simple, thick, almost lugubrious rhythms. I loved the bridge of "Jesus Christ Pose" intensely but there wasn't enough there to sustain my interest for very long. Soundgarden is lot like Far Beyond Driven-era Pantera for me, but they never produced a masterpiece along the lines of Vulgar Display of Power.

Maybe I should just simplify it and say that I'm not a huge fan of Soundgarden's rhythmic approach, although they were a very popular band for a while and I like some of their songs. Temple of the Dog OTOH was one of my favorite records, and I really like Audioslave -- although I think Audioslave suffers from a bit of the same rhythmic malaise, but overall their songwriting, melodies, and performances were better.

BTW the bender in the French Quarter lasted less than 2 hours, so really, I wasn't that drunk.

[Zarathustra]

I'd admit without hesitation that Tool is on an entirely different level than Soundgarden, blowing them away in every respect (except vocals), even though there is an elusive quality about both bands that evokes a similar feeling for me. I can't think of a better word for it than the one I used above: euphoric. It's the surprise of discovering a poignancy or beauty within something dark and raging.

Danny Carey is unbelievably good, whether he's playing with Tool or someone like Adrian Belew. However, I'm surprised to hear a complaint about SG's rhythm. Matt Cameron is excellent (he substituted for Neil Peart on Geddy's solo album), and the rhythms of SG's music is one of the things that sets them apart from every other Seattle/Grunge band of that decade, in my opinion. [Edited to add: I've learned to play the drums on Band Hero for about a dozen SG songs, and they are a challenge sometimes. However, I can't even begin to touch Tool songs on the same difficulty setting (expert). It's a completely different style.]

As with any band, judging them by their hits can be misleading. Outshined is a song I hardly ever listen to anymore. I'd agree with "insipid" for that one. All the songs you mentioned came off of one album, Badmotorfinger. While I liked that album--it was in my intro to the band--Superunknown and Down on the Upside are much better. Just as Tool evolved from the rough and brash sound of Undertow into something more cerebral and spiritual on Lateralus or 10,000 days, SG similarly exhibits a discernible evolution in their later albums ... well, except for the latest one which prompted me to start this thread.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

I've heard most of their other albums, but yes Badmotorfinger is the only one I ever bought, and I do still enjoy it from time to time. Some of my friends flat out loved them, but I was never inspired to buy their other albums.

BTW, I'm surprised you'd put Cornell ahead of MJK.

[Zarathustra]

BTW, I'm surprised you'd put Cornell ahead of MJK.

Wow, I'm surprised you're surprised! Cornell has a 4-octive voice. Even after damaging it, he can still blow away any other male rock vocalist I've ever heard, not only in range but in character, power, and soul. Granted, there is always going to be a measure of person taste in these comparisons, but I've always thought MJK was mediocre at best. Even he admits that he's the weakest link in his own band. Every live show I've seen of Tool, he hides his voice way down in the mix, and never attempts any of the challenging parts from the recorded versions of his songs.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

That's interesting as I've always thought Eddie Vedder significantly outsang Cornell on Hunger Strike. And I definitely see MJK as bringing more raw power and emotional intensity than Cornell, in my opinion his voice is the key element of Tool -- a far cry (pun intended) from the weak link to be sure. Cornell seems more suited to melancholy songs, even ballads, IMHO. And I do particularly enjoy his voice in that context. But he's acknowledged as an iconic vocalist and he certainly doesn't need my approval.

[Zarathustra]

Vedder is really good, and his voice is still holding up. I heard him belt out "The Real Me" and "Love Reign O'er Me" in a Who tribute concert a few years ago, and I was very impressed. I'd love to get that show on Blu-ray.

Like I said, I suppose we're just talking about personal taste at this point. But I can't imagine either Vedder or MJK be able to sing something like the chorus of Slaves and Bulldozers. (beginning at 1:32, for instance).

[Zarathustra]

I know it's only rock and roll, but I like to argue about it.

I think I like rock with boogie roots / groove / rhythmic complexity most of all, and that is one thing lacking in Soundgarden. Real syncopation perhaps, which is something I find in Tool's music in spades.

This is just a BA thesis, rather than a scholarly article (good luck finding one of those on Soundgarden ) but I thought the author did an excellent job explaining some of the rhythmic complexity of Soundarden which you claimed was lacking.

The true marker of the complexity of this song, however, is the details within the unusual meters. The introduction to “Spoonman” highlights the descending riff accompanied by embellishing percussion that only plays on lower levels of metrical priority, leaving the listener lost in the rhythm and without a clear sense of the meter. In addition to the lack of pulse-­-establishing drums, the main guitar riff is responsible for this uneasiness, in that it contains an even subdivision of four attacks across three beats (4:3) inserted within the riff (see Example 2.8 ). The string of four dotted-­quarter notes gives the impression that each dotted-­quarter is actually the pulse, instead of a single quarter note, which makes it difficult to determine where the pulse actually is. It is not until the major drum hits enter in the verse that the listener is able to clearly grasp the meter (:23). Although the 7/4 meter of the main riff is uncommon in rock music, it feels fairly stable, thanks to drum hits that emphasize the 2, 4, 6 and and-­of-­7 in an almost-­offbeat pattern that is as close to a typical rock backbeat as possible while maintaining the 7 beats per measure. These hits form a symmetrical pattern, which is fairly unique, of 3+4+4+3 eighth notes, with the hits landing on the last eighth of each set in keeping with the backbeat style. Unlike the symmetrical pattern in “Circle of Power,” these drum pattern serve to create a steadiness against the jolting and unsteady guitar riffs. However, these drum hits show the highly syncopated nature of the main riff, with its string of four dotted eighth notes bridging across the beat. This in part explains why it is only in the verse that we can begin to fully grasp the meter of the riff. Extrapolating on David Temperley's theory that syncopation reinforces an existing meter by allowing us to perceive it in contrast to an underlying deep metric structure, it is the space created by such definitive syncopation that allows us to interpret the surface structure and deep structure as such; we can perceive the events as separate and particular as opposed to joined on the same temporal scale. This is evidenced by the final refrains of “Spoonman” where Cameron introduces a woodblock hit on the ‘and’ of every beat, even further articulating the powerful 7/4 against the syncopated riff (3:39). The now completely established interaction between the guitar's ‘surface’ structure and the drums’ ‘deep’ structure is reiterated with a simple addition to the drum part.

Exploring the Superunknown: Composition and the Music of Soundgarden
by
Emily Michelle Weiss

It guess that explains why I've always found Spoonman to be one of the hardest SG songs to play on drums. But this is only one example of many great SG songs with very complex rhythms.