The Redemption of Kevin

[wayfriend]

Well, then, I have no choice but to double-post!

One cannot help but notice the synergy between Kevin's redemption, and the redemption of the Haruchai.

How apropos, with Kevin meaning so much to the Haruchai.

Kevin's Dead spirit dwelled in torment over what he had done. He judged himself by the results of his actions -- and deemed himself as nothing but the cause of the Land's misfortunes. But, as we have outlined above, it is Berek and Loric who insist to Kevin that he must not judge himself this way.

"You are loved and treasured, not for the outcome of your extremity, but rather for the open passion by which you were swayed to Desecration."

Not for the outcome. For the open passion.

If this sounds familiar, it should. It follows very closely the words of Stave to Covenant, a book and a few days later:

“You and the Chosen—those of your world—The Chosen-son. Hile Troy. You judge by your hearts. It is by grief and regret that you know yourselves, rather than by deeds and effort and service.”

By your hearts. Rather than by deeds.

Stave, too, recognizes that it is better to judge yourself by what you are passionate about then the outcome of your actions.

The Haruchai had been like Kevin, except that they had't yet done anything similar to the Ritual of Desecration. Rather, their fear of ever doing anything like Kevin did, even if it's just being guilty of enabling it, cripples them. The result is "terrible".

Kevin needed to be told the better way to know oneself, to judge oneself. And the Haruchai did as well. It was the same answer.

We are left to wonder why Kevin and the Haruchai are related by this needed lesson. Did Kevin impart to the Haruchai some misguided idea about judging oneself by deeds and outcomes? Or was it perhaps the other way around? The Haruchai seem to have carried this notion over the mountains. It was present when they met the Vizard, certainly. But it was not present in Kevin's ancestors, as we have seen. So: did the Haruchai engender their notions of judgement onto Kevin?

"Did you ever ask yourself why Kevin Landwaster chose the Ritual of Desecration?" She was shivering in the marrow of her bones. "He must've been an admirable man - or at least powerful" - she uttered that word as if it nauseated her - "if the Bloodguard were willing to give up death and even sleep to serve him. So what happened to him?"

She saw that Covenant might try to answer. She did not let him. "I'll tell you. The goddamn Bloodguard happened to him. It wasn't bad enough that he was failing - that he couldn't save the Land himself. He had to put up with them as well. Standing there like God Almighty and serving him while he lost everything he loved." Her voice snarled like sarcasm; but it was not sarcasm. It was her last supplication against the dark place toward which she was being impelled. You never loved me anyway. "Jesus Christ! No wonder he went crazy with despair. How could he keep any shred of his self-respect, with people like them around? He must've thought he didn't have any choice except to destroy everything that wasn't worthy of them."

Brinn did not remain silent. "Linden Avery." The detachment of his tone was as flat as the face of doom. "Is it truly your claim that the Bloodguard gave cause to Kevin Landwaster's despair?"

Perhaps.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

I'm likin' readin' this. Good stuff, Way.

[DrPaul]

The RoD could perhaps be considered similar in its effects to a massive meltdown of a nuclear reactor releasing radiation that would kill off all biological life in the vicinity but would not affect topographical features such as mountains, hills, valleys, escarpments, river beds, canyons, etc.

[JIkj fjds j]

The RoD could perhaps be considered similar in its effects to a massive meltdown of a nuclear reactor releasing radiation that would kill off all biological life in the vicinity but would not affect topographical features such as mountains, hills, valleys, escarpments, river beds, canyons, etc.

If you're comparing the RoD to a nuclear fuel rod then that sounds more akin to a bane. More so, a bane intended to damage the Land like planting a seed of despite. I can't imagine Kevin capable of such an act. It doesn't fit his nature.

No, I still think the closest we can get to understanding Kevin's RoD is to look to Covenant and the destruction of Ridjeck Thome.

In Foul's Creche, when Covenant finally understood the nature of wild magic that it was not to be used as a weapon to kill, the white gold ring was then rendered symbolic. Mhoram had said - you are the white gold.
Covenant saw the white gold magic - as deep as the earth and as high as time.

Kevin too wouldn't have needed anything symbolic to tap into the RoD.

[Vraith]

I have to go with something more akin to Dr. Paul [which I might already have said]...something mostly non-physical. In part because there is little or no evidence of it, combined with the fact that other kinds of catastrophes DO have such. Landsdrop, for instance, from SHE. And Melenkurion [with two different explanations, due to time travel...both, though, break the mountain]. Life/spirit/abundance/fertility draining...but not Earth-breaking.

It would seem to me Kevin knew that nothing physical in that way would/could do the slightest harm to LF. He THOUGHT he could slay his soul, his essence, his body was irrelevant.

Heh...even SRD's "only what I need" works against the physical destruction [though purely meta-, and speculative...]. Many important places---especially good guy places---were completely unharmed as far as we know. The Land didn't NEED physical destruction in order to be Desecrated...so creating/describing it didn't occur to him.

[Avatar]

I haven't read back. But don't forget Trell's start at desecration in Revelstone...the very stone ran and melted, didn't it?

--A

[JIkj fjds j]

Can you compare Trell to Kevin ?
I imagine the RoD as an extravagant act of despair. Trell melted stone because he was rhadhamaerl. If say a Hirebrand were to enact the ritual maybe it would strike at the heart of the Land like lightning and fire gone all out of control. Although the common denominator is despair, each character would react to a broken heart differently, I would imagine.

As Vraith pointed out the more spiritual aspect of Kevin's "extravagant act of despair", I'll sometimes interpret this as a representation of childhood's end. Something each and every one of us has to go through, maybe around the beginning of our formative education, when the world changes and will never be the same again.
The hiding away of Wards is just like how we might deal with giving up certain toys and the many inner worlds of magic and imagination.
Externalizing these things in a more grown-up "Land of fantasy" may well be an accurate depiction of Kevin's Ritual of Desecration.
Not something enacted in a moment of extreme despair, but a long drawn out series of events and deliberations.

Which makes me wonder, in a round'a'bout way, what was the gift Kevin gave to the Harachai that guaranteed their alliance and service to the end of time ?

[wayfriend]

I'll point out that the people of the Land could not return to the Land for about five hundred years. The lived in exile "by nail and tooth". This, to me, says that the Land must have been inhospitable for quite a long time.

Trell melted stone because he was rhadhamaerl.

I agree, Kevin's Desecration need not have been identical. But if Trell's desecration was based on his lore, we can argue that Kevin's was based on his. The lore of the Old Lords. It was replete with the knowledge of healing the Land and Earthpower and Law. And don't forget, prior to the Desecration, stone- and wood-lore was not sundered, but also the province of the Old Lords, and greater.

Imagine, then, what Kevin's Desecration would look like based on that. I think that it would be boiling earth and burning trees and poison and pestilence.

[Vraith]

I haven't read back. But don't forget Trell's start at desecration in Revelstone...the very stone ran and melted, didn't it?

--A

But that...the stone...was the only lore he knew---and his passion.
That's part of why I mentioned Kevin wanting to slay LF's soul/essence.
Power takes the form of ones purposes and desires..

[[bah, just read some of the others---that's a bit repetitive.]]

[Kaos Arcanna]

If Kevin had not performed the ROD then Lord Foul would have presumably gone on to defeat the Lords and utterly Desecrate the Land and then move on to wreak havoc on the rest of the Earth. This would not have earned him freedom but it would have grievously wounded the spirit of the Creator.

More than that, he would have gained the Staff of Law and could have performed the Ritual of Summoning and brought Thomas Covenant to the Land before he was spiritually ready to resist Foul. Would a happy Covenant, one who had not yet been diagnosed with leprosy, have really resisted when Foul said, "Hand over that ring or I'll keep you in this hellish world I have created for the rest of your life?"

[JIkj fjds j]

If Kevin had not performed the ROD then Lord Foul would have presumably gone on to defeat the Lords and utterly Desecrate the Land and then move on to wreak havoc on the rest of the Earth. This would not have earned him freedom but it would have grievously wounded the spirit of the Creator.

More than that, he would have gained the Staff of Law and could have performed the Ritual of Summoning and brought Thomas Covenant to the Land before he was spiritually ready to resist Foul. Would a happy Covenant, one who had not yet been diagnosed with leprosy, have really resisted when Foul said, "Hand over that ring or I'll keep you in this hellish world I have created for the rest of your life?"

If the Lords only had possession of the first of Kevin's Wards then it's reasonable to assume that the Ward contained all there was to know about that pesky SoL, the RoD, the RoS, the ... hey, wait a minute!

I'll start again.
If the Lords only knew what was contained in the first Ward of High Lord Kevin's hidden knowledge ... hey, wait a ................. ~:w

I'll give it one more try.
If High Lord Elena Froggy Legs knew how to wave a wand, the Creator would've ...

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[DrPaul]

If Kevin had not performed the ROD then Lord Foul would have presumably gone on to defeat the Lords and utterly Desecrate the Land and then move on to wreak havoc on the rest of the Earth. This would not have earned him freedom but it would have grievously wounded the spirit of the Creator.

More than that, he would have gained the Staff of Law and could have performed the Ritual of Summoning and brought Thomas Covenant to the Land before he was spiritually ready to resist Foul. Would a happy Covenant, one who had not yet been diagnosed with leprosy, have really resisted when Foul said, "Hand over that ring or I'll keep you in this hellish world I have created for the rest of your life?"

Ah, but remember that "Attempts must be made, even when there can be no hope. The alternative is despair. And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us." Berek, Mhoram and (more than once) Covenant and Linden kept trying in situations that (given that we aren't told a lot of detail about the situation in the Land at the time of the RoD) may well have been as desperate as, if not more so than, the situation Kevin was in, and as we know wonders were wrought to redeem them.

[wayfriend]

If Kevin had not performed the ROD then Lord Foul would have presumably gone on to defeat the Lords and utterly Desecrate the Land and then move on to wreak havoc on the rest of the Earth. This would not have earned him freedom but it would have grievously wounded the spirit of the Creator.

More than that, he would have gained the Staff of Law and could have performed the Ritual of Summoning and brought Thomas Covenant to the Land before he was spiritually ready to resist Foul. Would a happy Covenant, one who had not yet been diagnosed with leprosy, have really resisted when Foul said, "Hand over that ring or I'll keep you in this hellish world I have created for the rest of your life?"

Ah, but remember that "Attempts must be made, even when there can be no hope. The alternative is despair. And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us." Berek, Mhoram and (more than once) Covenant and Linden kept trying in situations that (given that we aren't told a lot of detail about the situation in the Land at the time of the RoD) may well have been as desperate as, if not more so than, the situation Kevin was in, and as we know wonders were wrought to redeem them.

I agree with Dr Paul, and want to follow up on that.

In the Gradual Interview, Donaldson warns that if you judge people's actions by the results, this is the same as believing the ends justifies the means. Kaos is saying that, had Kevin not done what he had done, things would have been worse. Presumably, this justifies what Kevin did. So: the ends justifies the means.

The opinion that what Kevin did was good, because of how it helped the Land, and the opinion that what Kevin did was bad, because of the harm it had done to the Land, both stem from the same root: a judgement about the result becomes the judgement about the choice. The result was good, therefore the choice was good / The result was bad, therefore the choice was bad. And also a judgement about the person. the result was bad, so Kevin was a villian / The result was good, so Kevin was a hero.

What Donaldson's characters tell us in the story is that both are equally invalid. How we judge Kevin's choice should be judged on the choice before him, and how we judge Kevin should be based on what Kevin stands for. Specifically, Kevin's choice was bad because he listened to despair, gave up, and prevented everyone else from keeping up the fight. Mhoram's stance of standing up for what you believe to the bitter end, come what may, was the wiser one. And specifically, Kevin is not a villian, because he loved the Land and succumbed to a despair that would have challenged anyone. As we are reminded, someone who can inspire the Vow of the Bloodguard is someone who is generous and wise and devoted and inspiring. This, at least, is what the story says. And not just that such ends/means judgements are invalid, but that acting on such judgements is harmful, if only to oneself.

[DrPaul]

Yes. Covenant makes a similar point when he tries to convince the Haruchai that failure isn't the same as unworth.

[JIkj fjds j]

Imagine, then, what Kevin's Desecration would look like based on that. I think that it would be boiling earth and burning trees and poison and pestilence.

I don't see any evidence of boiling earth, burning trees, and poison and pestilence, except what had happened at Trothgard - and all the evidence points to Kevin being at Kiril Threndor. Far away.
Kevin's RoD left Mt. Thunder and Andelain preserved. Kurash Plenethor was desecrated.

When you study the map of the Land and locations of devastation you'll find there are four. A curious number, don't you think! There were after all four ancient Lords. One for each location ?
I'll bet that's where The Redemption of Kevin lies.

[wayfriend]

Kurash Plenethor was the site of a great battle. This is why it was a particularly wounded land.

Since that battle was before the Desecration, we could conclude that the Desecration wasn't as bad for the land as that battle. Or, at least, it's effects were more easily recovered from.

[JIkj fjds j]

I'd like to believe that Kurash Plenethor was the original name of the blasted mountain. The valley the company traversed through (in chapter 12 of the Illearth War - The Rock Gardens of the Maerl) was named so. This name more than likely came from the First Ward.

By your own definition of what Kevin may have been capable of - was it not Amok who claimed Kevin's power to be the pinnacle of all the Old Lords put together! - then a shattered mountain may prove to be peanuts compared to Kevin's eruption of power.
But then, wait a minute, do you really believe Kevin capable of mustering that much anger and hate? I don't.

My guess is that Kurash Plenethor and Kurash Qwellinor, Stricken Stone and Shattered Hills, both are one and the same place. And that this is (partially) explained in the Fourth Ward, eg How to interpret Land Reflection from Mirage.
If only

[DrPaul]

Kurash Plenethor was the site of a great battle. This is why it was a particularly wounded land.

Since that battle was before the Desecration, we could conclude that the Desecration wasn't as bad for the land as that battle. Or, at least, it's effects were more easily recovered from.

We also now know what the Demondim were capable of. They were undoubtedly participants in that battle and their lore was sufficient to defeat the army of the Old Lords, even with the powerful Lore that they had at their disposal.

[SoulBiter]

To me, Kevin is like those people who kill their families in a murder-suicide because they think the world is too messed up to live in. Killing what you love because you can't stand the thought of it not being perfect, 'defending' an idealized version of what you love because you can't accept it the way it is.

Kevin was 'trapped' no more than the rest of us. We all have to face our own inner Despiser and the consequences of that in others. Kevin was the most extreme example of how not to deal with Foul. If we shouldn't judge Kevin on the basis of his actions, then what's to keep us from emulating him? How can we condemn his actions (in order to prevent others from acting as he did) if we're going to say that he was redeemed in the end? (If that's not your position, it's a question for others to answer).

What lessons do you learn from Kevin?

I looked on the ROD and Kevin in this way. It wasn't that he thought the Land was no longer worth living in. Kevin despaired in that he believed that LF had all but won and they were all going to die or worse. LF must have known better otherwise why would have he have bothered with waiting a thousand years more and being reduced during that time. Once Kevin believed that the Land was lost he decided that he would 'trick' LF into the Ritual which would destroy them both. But it all played into LF's hands. He already knew it would be thousands of years more and maybe never unless something drastic happened. So losing a thousand years was no big deal. Kevin didn't realize this and thought he would get rid of LF and redeem the Land even though it was at great cost.

Kevin did pay, many times over, in that he had to view the outcome of his choice over the thousands of years to come and realize just how large the mistake was that he made. He was made to relive it when he was brought back from the dead and mastered by LF and forced to fight directly for corruption. He paid for his crimes against the Land for a number of millennia. His redemption was that.... he didn't need to continue to pay for this for eternity.

[Orlion]

To me, Kevin is like those people who kill their families in a murder-suicide because they think the world is too messed up to live in. Killing what you love because you can't stand the thought of it not being perfect, 'defending' an idealized version of what you love because you can't accept it the way it is.

Kevin was 'trapped' no more than the rest of us. We all have to face our own inner Despiser and the consequences of that in others. Kevin was the most extreme example of how not to deal with Foul. If we shouldn't judge Kevin on the basis of his actions, then what's to keep us from emulating him? How can we condemn his actions (in order to prevent others from acting as he did) if we're going to say that he was redeemed in the end? (If that's not your position, it's a question for others to answer).

What lessons do you learn from Kevin?

I looked on the ROD and Kevin in this way. It wasn't that he thought the Land was no longer worth living in. Kevin despaired in that he believed that LF had all but won and they were all going to die or worse. LF must have known better otherwise why would have he have bothered with waiting a thousand years more and being reduced during that time. Once Kevin believed that the Land was lost he decided that he would 'trick' LF into the Ritual which would destroy them both. But it all played into LF's hands. He already knew it would be thousands of years more and maybe never unless something drastic happened. So losing a thousand years was no big deal. Kevin didn't realize this and thought he would get rid of LF and redeem the Land even though it was at great cost.

Kevin did pay, many times over, in that he had to view the outcome of his choice over the thousands of years to come and realize just how large the mistake was that he made. He was made to relive it when he was brought back from the dead and mastered by LF and forced to fight directly for corruption. He paid for his crimes against the Land for a number of millennia. His redemption was that.... he didn't need to continue to pay for this for eternity.

Yes, I like looking at LF as cancer and the RoD as chemotherapy. Kevin viewed the problem of LF as being so severe that desperate actions were necessary. He intended to cure the Land of LF, which is why he sent people away and created the Wards. As terrible as the Ritual would be, he intended it as a final solution and attempted to mitigate the harm that would be necessary.

He would have to hurt severely what he loved to save it. That's enough to mess anyone up.

But it wasn't a final solution. It was not a solution at all. If Foul is to be believed, Kevin saw this at the last moment, and from there to almost the end his torment ensued.

His intent was "good", in fact I'm not sure if people considered him a failure since I do not think people knew Lord Foul survived until Thomas Covenant came to the Land. They pitied him, mourned the loss of a Golden Age... but they did not revile him, maybe because the people of the Land thought he succeeded.

Once that illusion was shattered... once his action of creating the Wards led directly to the breaking of the Law of Death and the other subsequent breaking of abstract concepts...his self-damnation certainly grew.

He didn't just fail in destroying Lord Foul. He made sure Lord Foul would become empowered, that the very foundations by which the world was built on would be weakened, broken, and then destroyed.

His "ultimate redemption" is not really "redemption" as such. His actions are never atoned for, the resulting damages are never repaired. What happened is that he "accepted". He accepted that he could never have saved the world, that it was beyond his power...was always beyond his power. He accepted that despite what action he took, Foul would have gotten what Foul wanted from him. And finally, he accepted that at least his ancestors did not blame him, that all his damnation was self-imposed.

As an aside, it seems that what we call "redemption" in Donaldson books is not redemption at all.