Kevin's Watch

..Other than the fact that it was just outside Foul's Creche...where the stone was.

Still a stretch, IMHO.

I agree.

Hey, I was just wondering, that's all.

Good to see that you guys have solid arguements

I can't see Foul letting any ur-viles have a piece of the Stone. I would imagine that it took great power to break off a piece for each giant. Why waste it on an ur-vile too?

Great power to break off a piece?

He's Lord Foul!

drew wrote:Hey, thanks for the back-up MR K


I imagine that if Vain could have been Ravered, then he would have been possesed. There was a few opportunaties, like when the eels attacked at sea, or the two times he was at Revelstone.

Any time, Drew!

Well, the account of the "supreme ur-vile loremaster" came from Lord Mhoram in a second hand telling after the passage of many years, so we don't really have an accounting of how samadhi got control of the loremaster. (Which brings up an interesting secondary point: At what point in time was the Giant Satansfist controlled by samadhi? Weren't all three brothers taken over at the same time??)

In PTP, High Lord Elena's specter "gave" the Ramen Whane and Lal to turiya and moksha with the power of the Staff of Law.

It's entirely possible that Lord Foul "gave" control of the ur-vile Loremaster to samadhi using the power of the Stone - controlling someone or something that ordinarily would have been able to refuse any Raver.

Mhoram told the story of that encounter directly to Covenant, which makes it a first-hand rendition.

I've always assumed that the three brothers were possessed simultaneously. I suppose Satansfist sunned himself on the quiet shores of Foul's Creche until TPTP.

It's entirely possible that Lord Foul "gave" control of the ur-vile Loremaster to samadhi using the power of the Stone - controlling someone or something that ordinarily would have been able to refuse any Raver.

I suppose it is - there just isn't any evidence that it happened that way. I just don't put ur-viles on the same level as Giants, Haruchai and Ramen.

Nope, there isn't any evidence for a lot of this - just our speculation!

But it's lots of fun anyway...

It is fun, isn't it? It's been a long time since we've had anyone here who wanted to talk TC in such detail! Keep it going!

dlbpharmd wrote:It is fun, isn't it? It's been a long time since we've had anyone here who wanted to talk TC in such detail! Keep it going!

I'm having a great time! Thanks dlbpharmd for the compliment, I appreciate it!

It's good to find fellow TC fans - For many years I would say I loved the TC books and everyone I knew would return a blank look and say, "huh?"

I plan on hanging around a LONG time....

Would have to agree that Vain could not be possessed, on the basis that he is not 'alive'.

On the posessed Ur-vile , I never gave that any thought - was not surprising to me that the raver could possess one BUT also consider the possibility taht the ur-vile may have allowed itself to be posessed (coerced by Foul or not).

Yeah really!
Of course Foul told the ur-vile to get possed. The same way the Loremaster let The Giant Raver throw him into the Vortex of trepidation he was mixing up in TIW.
I can picture Foul saying....let the raver posses you, or you can live life as a soft-one.

drew wrote:Yeah really! ......

drew, was that sarcasm (I do'nt know you so I ca'nt tell).
If so, did I do something to invite it? If not, my apologies.

No-no I was agreeing with you..
Damn that sounded sarcastic too.
I don't know how I can stop from sounding sarcastic...
I beleive that Foul could have deffinatly ordered the ur-vile to be possed by a raver.

Thats ok drew - sorry for the misunderstanding.