What are your Convictions?

[SoulQuest1970]

I am not the debate type person. I saw the thread topic and thought it a good place to simply state my convictions which are somewhat loose. Instead of simply opening up an pleasant conversation about different views, I kinda felt attacked as if being backed into a debate. Some people love to get into debates. I am not one of them. I get very flustered and I am very sensative, especially when it comes to my personal beleifs. I am more than happy to learn of other beleifs. I call myself a Unicathlitarian. I am Unitarian Universalist meets Catholic. I also describe myself as Catholic in an almost Pagan kinda way. Some of my closest friends have been Wiccans. I go more in for Shamanism. I have avoided posting a reply because I was not in the right state of mind to do so. I felt very hurt. This has been a very rough couple of weeks for me because 4 years ago my husband abandoned us on January 29th. Our wedding anniversary being Febuary 12th and today being Valentines. I have been trying very hard to keep myself feeling good about me. Honestly I feel bad for anyone who has such a dark view of life and the before/after. To think this world that can sometimes be very harsh is all there is is very sad. I have always just known and felt it inside what more there is. I have faith. I am also strong beleiver in science as well. Also, my mother has Alzhiemers. I have found that instead of erasing her personality, it has enhanced it. Negatively. She was abused, bitter and angry. Now she acts as a young child and is full of her rage. She has hit me and picks on my kids and neice. Unfortualtely, my neice and infant nephew live with my parents right now along with thier parents. My heart goes out to my poor little neice who has to bear the brunt of it on a daily basis. I still worry because I have to leave my son with my parents so I can work to support my kids. My dad protects him, but it is such a strain on him to control mom and protect my son while having to try to take care of daily tasks like bills. My son has been on the waiting list for Head Start for almost a year.

Is it any wonder that I have faith? I have to or I could never go on. Apparently this is not the forum for me to discuss my faith while feeling secure.

[matrixman]

SoulQuest, I can't speak for nuk, but for my part I'm very sorry if anything I said here offended or hurt you. And I'm sorry if my comments about Alzheimer's touched a sore point, as I did not know about your mother's condition. The last thing I want is to cause pain to a member of Kevin's Watch.

Well, Avatar, I guess I really did crash and burn. I'll go crawl back under my rock now, thanks.

[Avatar]

Aah SoulQuest, truly I'm sorry about your situation, and I assure you that nothing was said with the intent to offend.

As MatrixMan, (who I suspect is distressed at the thought of having upset you), said earlier, The Close can be a sensitive place here at The Watch.

And I realise that you are understandably feeling a bit sensitive yourself . Certainly nothing that was said was either meant as an attack, or directed specifically at you. A new thought came up, and we followed the tangent, as we almost always do, with, I think, no thought as to where it came from. (Or what the actual topic was. )

Of course your faith is, and always will be, your own. We do not belittle it in any way, indeed, I have no doubt that many here who are without faith have no small respect for those who can and do experience it.

But with the wide variety of beliefs, thoughts and opinions that we have and try to share here, it is inevitable that we will encounter those who disagree with us.

Always remember though that your security in your faith is yours and yours alone. We seek only to understand it, never to destroy it.

As it is, you may have undone my efforts to get MatrixMan to post here more regularly in a single stroke. (Don't worry MM, I'm sure she didn't mean to be so hard on you. )

I hope that you will continue to join us here in The Close, SoulQuest. It may have an uncertain footing, but IMHO, it's one of the most interesting places at The Watch.

Stay Safe

--Avatar

[ChoChiyo]

You raise an interesting point though, and one which I've not had much consensus on. If there is an afterlife, will we experience it as the individuals that we are?

Some folks say, "no, we'll simply be subsumed in the mind of god and not experience anything as the individuals that we are." (To me, this means the same as if there were no afterlife. If I can't experience it independantly as myself, then I'm not there, which means it isn't there itself.)

***********<snipped away some for space>*****************

If death fundamentally changes the "soul", then it's not as though we experience anything at all. We are not there to experience it.

--Avatar

This is one of the most hideous thoughts I have about the afterlife. If we are just sucked into an amorphous bliss or torment and our personalities are destroyed--what good is that?

What has our life in the corporeal world been about then?

If God did create us--and he created us unique--I don't see why he would want to destroy that uniqueness when we have finished our "education" here in the corporeal world.

I would like to think our existence has some meaning beyond just eating, sleeping, and eliminating for a number of years.

Have you ever read the book Childhood's End? That is about humanity being absorbed into some great "Overmind." They started with the children because children adapt so well.

It was the most horrific and disturbing book I've ever read. The thought of being nothing more than a screw in a giant machine offends me to the smallest corpuscle of my being.

Even if I am just a small, squeaky voice, I still want to be my OWN small, squeaky voice.

[Avatar]

If we are just sucked into an amorphous bliss or torment and our personalities are destroyed--what good is that?

I take some small consolation from the fact that if this is true, we'll never know it. Without the "I" nothing remains. We could not percieve or experience anything in a meaningful frame of reference.

--Avatar

[SoulQuest1970]

Thank you, Avatar and MM. Nothing I said was meant to be hard on either of you. As I said, I have not been in the greatest place emotionally and spiritually for the past couple weeks. I know no harm was meant which is why I avoided posting immediately and waiting until I was not feeling quite so upset. It is a shame about my mother. I also thought it would take her personality, but it doesn't quite work like that. According to the MRI her brain is like swiss cheese. Some parts are destroyed completely and others are still in tact. The degineration is still ongoing despite the Aracept. She also takes Seraquil (sp?) for the anger. Her doeses were recently doubled. They were working for a while and stopped. The meds were doubled and they kinda work, but not nearly as well as they had been. She only started medicine a year ago. According to the doc, the moral center that tells her that beating dogs and people is not acceptable is gone. The area of her brain that holds her inherent personality is still there. Her mother had it too and she also retained her personality. She was stubborn, but mostly sweet. She would eat her lipstick and stuff, but most of the time sat around with a smile and a ready chuckle. My mom never wanted kids but felt she HAD to. She wanted to be a nun and never forgot to tell me this over and over... how she never wanted us, especially me because I was not the girl she wanted. I guess that is the big mystery behind Alzhiemers. Why does it destroy each brain differently? Why does it work they way it does? It seems to regress the person back to thier childhood and bring out the quailties of that inner child. In my grandmother's case, she was spunky but for the most part happy. My mother was a terrified and angry child. I do not mind discussing this topic. I just wanted to make people aware that I deal with this first hand every day and see the ongoing affects. What I see when I look at my mom is her soul trapped in the hell she has created. Her mother seemed to exist someplace nice and got confused when someone tried to bring her back to this world. As much as my mother has hurt me, I feel for her. All I feel is compassion. I know her life was terrible because I see her reliving it now.

[Avatar]

Aah, never fear, we're an understanding bunch on the whole.

It's perhaps one of the greatest tragedies of humanity that we may lose our faculties before we die. It's also perhaps one of the very few things that really frightens me.

Unfortunately, the human brain is one place where all of our vaunted medical excellence can desert us. Neurologists are usually quite willing to admit that they don't even understand the brain of a frog, let alone that of a person. And as with so many things, if not all things, we are all so different, so individual, so unique, that nothing can chart the course of an illness such as that.

It's terrible that you were told by your own mother that she never wanted you. We discuss it in many places here, the damage that parents, often all unknowing, inflict on their children, probably little realising what profound implications it will have on their childs life to come.

For you to have found compassion for her, and the understanding at least of what made her the way she was, is a testament to your own spirit.

I suspect that your name is well chosen, and I wish you only luck, and above all, peace.

--Avatar

[Fist and Faith]

You raise an interesting point though, and one which I've not had much consensus on. If there is an afterlife, will we experience it as the individuals that we are?

Some folks say, "no, we'll simply be subsumed in the mind of god and not experience anything as the individuals that we are." (To me, this means the same as if there were no afterlife. If I can't experience it independantly as myself, then I'm not there, which means it isn't there itself.)

***********<snipped away some for space>*****************

If death fundamentally changes the "soul", then it's not as though we experience anything at all. We are not there to experience it.

This is one of the most hideous thoughts I have about the afterlife. If we are just sucked into an amorphous bliss or torment and our personalities are destroyed--what good is that?

What has our life in the corporeal world been about then?

If God did create us--and he created us unique--I don't see why he would want to destroy that uniqueness when we have finished our "education" here in the corporeal world.

I would like to think our existence has some meaning beyond just eating, sleeping, and eliminating for a number of years.

Have you ever read the book Childhood's End? That is about humanity being absorbed into some great "Overmind." They started with the children because children adapt so well.

It was the most horrific and disturbing book I've ever read. The thought of being nothing more than a screw in a giant machine offends me to the smallest corpuscle of my being.

Even if I am just a small, squeaky voice, I still want to be my OWN small, squeaky voice.

Cho, I think you'd make a lousy Hindu. From my understanding of it, our core Self (atman) is an infinite little portion of the infinite Brahman. The ultimate goal, which generally takes many many many lifetimes, is to free yourself from all the nasty things that keep the atman from rejoining the Brahman. Which, basically, is your ego/mind/identity. Attachment to your small, squeaky voice is the problem! hehehe

I think the idea is that the Brahman remembers all of the individuals' experiences. (Not in the sense that we remember, since Brahman is not a conscious, thinking entity like the Christian God. Brahman has been defined as "The irreducible ground of existence. The essence of every thing." and "The eternal, imperishable Absolute. The supreme nondual reality of Vedanta.") So, in one sense, nothing is lost. Of course, you obviously don't like the idea of what is lost, but the Hindu considers the personal identity to be the villain. Basically, it is a bag of nasty desires, weaknesses, and needs. (What the heck happened to Fiz? He'd be able to help with Hinduism.) And, in a way, your objection confirms that definition of identity.

[ChoChiyo]

To heck with Hinduism.

I wanna be me!

Not some Brahman dude.

I worked hard to become me!

[Fist and Faith]

I worked hard to become me!

I, otoh, had no choice. Despite all my hard work, I'm still me!

[ChoChiyo]

Hee hee

Ah...you're pretty good as you are.

I like you.

(Of course I am notorious for having no taste whatsoever. I like everyone.)

[Fist and Faith]

Why, thank y...


Wait a sec... I may have been insulted there! <img src=kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/album_see.php?id=111>

[Sunbaneglasses]

To be a better parent and husband than my father was.To be a courtious driver.To be hygenic.To be as kind to others as my state of mind at the time will let me.Oh yea and to respect others opinions unless they are a complete arse.

[ChoChiyo]

*wide eyed innocense*

Of COURSE it was a compliment.

[Avatar]

Despite all my hard work, I'm still me!

Yeah, I'm with Cho...Nothing wrong with the way that you are right now. In that vein however, perhaps that's the problem. Too attached to yourself, even if it is a negative attachment. (Remember how to get rid of clouds?)

Personally, I feel the same as Cho does. I like me. I want to continue being me. In fact, I insist on it. (Of course, if I'm ever not me, "I" won't know it.)

--Avatar

[SoulQuest1970]

It's perhaps one of the greatest tragedies of humanity that we may lose our faculties before we die. It's also perhaps one of the very few things that really frightens me.

I think a lot of this has to do with a lack of respect for our elders. It once was that the elders were respected and continued to be functioning leaders until death. Thier wisdom was highly respected. A convent a couple of years ago participated in a study on Alzhiemers. They went back to read essays written by each of the women and took MRI's of each woman. They found a connection between each woman's intellectual and verbal level and who had Alzhiemers in old age. The women that did not demonstrate high verbal skills that stopped reading and furthering themselves were the ones that tended toward dementia. The women that showed high verbal skills and reamained active readers, thinkers, etc tended to retain thier high functioning minds. An exception to this would be early onset Alzhimers which is what my mom has. It is influenced by educational level. My mom, for instance, quit school at 16 so she could work full time to avoid her abusive step father and and refused to take anything given to her by him. She never went to college and was never quite capable to assisting me with homework. Now mom can barely read. She does not know how to cook anymore. Six months ago she could still cook, but I discovered to my dismay several weeks ago that she had no idea how to make raman noodle. She had to make peanut butter sandwiches for the kids. Now I cook more than I need to so I can send dinner with my dad for them. If I don't do that, they eat sadwiches or tv dinners.

For you to have found compassion for her, and the understanding at least of what made her the way she was, is a testament to your own spirit.

I suspect that your name is well chosen, and I wish you only luck, and above all, peace.

--Avatar

Thanks. I wish I could say that road was an easy one for me. It has been only recently that I have been able to feel the compassion for her. I guess it was when I realized she could not cook anymore that it hit me. When I am in public and she rambles to strangers I no longer feel like crawling under a rock. I make sure to keep an eye on her and often hold her hand to make sure she doesn't wander off... she did that to me once before dad finally took her to a neurologist. I bent down to get something off a shelf in the grocery store and when I stood up mom was gone. I looked for her with growing concern and finally told the manager my mom had Alzhiemers and she wandered off. They helped me find her and mom looked like she was about to cry. She asked me why I left her. Before I was angry and wanted her to snap out of it, but that day scared me. Now I am accepted it, even tho I don't like it. Part of accepting her anger and abusive behavior comes from my getting older. I am almost 35 now and I am better able to see her as the child she was and not dwell on why she isn't being my mother. What I see now when I look at my mom... well, it is like Joan. She is a broken woman living in hell.

[Avatar]

I wish I could say that road was an easy one for me.

Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. And what can be more worthwhile than the growth of your own spirit?

I wasn't aware of the connection between Alzhiemer's and education/mental activity. Makes sense in a way to me though. My own grandmother died at 85, still in full possession of all her faculties. She was an incredibly active woman though, a lover of books and knowledge until her death. Travelled abroad yearly, spoke ten languages, and was busy learning her eleventh, Russian, when she died.

Age, I so often think, is a state of mind. If you sit in a corner with your knitting, bemoaning the fact that you're old, it's no wonder that you let yourself slip. If you keep yourself occupied and interested, you'll keep yourself young.

I can't really imagine the difficulties that must go with caring for a person such as your mother. And what I can imagine of them makes me flinch. And when you add that to 3 kids, and your other struggles...Respect.

--Avatar

[ChoChiyo]

I echo Avatar-- "Respect" indeed.

Hang in there.

[SoulQuest1970]

Um... I have no clue how to respond other than thank you. I guess I don't think much about it. People ask me all the time how I do it simply being a single mom of 3. The only answer I have is I do it. What other choice is there? I adore my kids. I make sure they know it every day. I laugh as much as I can. Video games (especially Ratchet and Clank) are very therapudic when stressed. Even when I think I wil lose my mind... oh wait! Too late! lol A sense of humor sustains me. On my door is a sign stating, "Beware of Attack Mother". When I start feeling frustrated with mom, I take a breath and think like I am speaking to one of the kids (generally like my 3 year old). My heart goes out to my dad. He lives in the insane assylum. I live a few blocks from the assylum so I'm good. My brother's family lives there. He is schizoaffective, ADD, petite mal epileptic, dyslexic, dysgraphic. His wife is full epileptic, boarderline mentally retarded, cerbal palsey, ADD and has a bad attitude and never says anything nice to anyone including her children. Then there is Aurora who is 7... her only known disability is lacking social skills because her mother won't allow it (she is starting to now) and her mother is incapable of teaching her and helping with homework or even reading to her. Then there is 3 month old Cedric. Also there are 5 dogs (4 are large dogs) and now 10 puppies. So, in my world, I have it a lot easier then my dad does.

[Kymbierlee]

Age, I so often think, is a state of mind. If you sit in a corner with your knitting, bemoaning the fact that you're old, it's no wonder that you let yourself slip. If you keep yourself occupied and interested, you'll keep yourself young.

I agree completely with this. My grandmother is in a nursing home with terrible Alzheimer's disease. She has been going slowly downhill for years. About 15 years ago, she stopped reading because her eyes were too bad, stopped going for walks, stopped just about everything except for complaining about her health and worrying about when she was going to die. She went downhill rapidly after that. It's a shame to see her the way she is. I can't even believe that she's my Nan sometimes. It is horrible to go see her in the nursing home. I hate going there- the smell, the poor old people sitting in recliners with trays across them so they can't fall, the harried, overworked staff.... That's not where Nan belongs, but we couldn't take care of her at home- she was a danger to herself and all of us. She set things on fire trying to make coffee on the stove, wandered off, etc. It was a hard decision. Nan used to be the best cook. I never took the time to learn any of her recipies. Now she doesn't even know who I am let alone how to make sausage gravy and homemade buttermilk biscuits anymore. I wish I'd taken more time 15 or 20 years ago to learn and listen to her. We sometimes get so caught up in what we think is important at the time that we forget what actually is. I feel for you Soulquest. Stay strong and Bright Blessings on you and your family.