Kevin's Watch

Menolly,

If you can do it to please your family without feeling guilt or remorse for doing something you're not 100% sure about, then I say go for it

Yes. That is good advice.

Perhaps you could write a song, poem, or story, depending on your muse, about your feelings and share it with your family before a final decision is made...

Fascinating idea.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:You're only 16 (Which shocks me. You post older!)

Me too! That was the biggest shock I've had about a fellow Watcher since I found out Skyweir's female! My immediate reaction was "He's HOW OLD?!", before scouring the topic to confirm I'd misunderstood. Bloody hell, lad, I thought you were older than me. In all honesty, had I been asked, I would have placed you in your thirties

Junior,

Heh. I've never been called "lad" before.

duchess of malfi wrote:Darth, perhaps, since they are really into their Church, they think that this is the right thing for him? And he is still a minor child living under their roof. That does give them a bit of input, after all.

Some parents are monstrous in what they do to their children in the name of religion. Dave's mom sounds very mellow, for instance, in comparison to my Mormon sister-in-law, who did her best to turn her son's life into living hell well into adulthood because he wasn't interested in the church (we're talking things like coming into his apartment -- that he, an adult was paying rent on and throwing out/destroying any books and CD's she didn't approve of -- that he had paid for).

Um, wow... that's about the time I'd change the locks. My parents never in their wildest dreams would have had a key to my apartment in the first place. That be messed up.

Get used to it now I know your age

This adds a surreal slant to being addressed by you; it feels very odd to be called Junior by someone nearly a decade younger than me

As for confirmation, I've always had difficulty with the rituals of religion. Saying that someone needs to do X or Y at a certain age doesn't, to me, address their spiritual growth at all. I much prefer "this person should do X or Y when they are ready for it - not before". It just undermines belief in general to make people do things they aren't spiritually thirsty for.

Lord Mhoram wrote:I have come to an important conclusion in my spirituality: In my opinion, Jesus Christ was a wise and spiritual Jewish prophet and teacher who can guide one to the path of salvation but he was not, I don't believe, the divine Son of God.

If this is what you believe, then absolutely do not get Confirmed. The Trinity is the cornerstone of Catholicism. If you don't accept that as fact, you're not doing anybody, especially yourself, any good.

Lord Mhoram wrote:In addition, why is Christianity, as it preaches, the only way to salvation? This is something else I cannot accept.

I don't know what the Catholic Church in Boston teaches, but in my church, and in every other one I've been in, that is absolutely not the case. When we say the Creed, we are acknowledging God's second Covenant. The first is (basically) the Old Testament, and God's sacred Covenant with the Jews. I believe, as does my priest, in One God, One Church, and that means that anybody of faith has the ability to enter Heaven.

Lord Mhoram wrote:In essence, here is my question: Should I just go through with my Confirmation to appease my family, or do it just in case I change my mind later and regret not having been confirmed at this time in my life? It's an important decision for me, and I'm posting it here because I find it sort of uncomfortable to discuss with my family, and I respect and love many of you guys and I hope that you can provide some advice.

First of all, I'm floored that you're only 16, you type like you're at least 17

If you were in your 30s, I'd tell you no, don't do it. At 16....It's tough. As far as the Church is concerned, you are absolutely not to take Communion if you believe what you believe. If I'm not mistaken, that was a Venal Sin up until Vatican II. But you're a veritable pup when it comes to your life experiences. At 16 you couldn't get me to go near a church (f*%&#@@$ Baptists), I converted to Catholicism in my early 30s, because I wanted to, not because I was told I had to. That's the way it should be....attraction, not promotion. That being said, I'm raising my daughter Catholic, and I expect that she'll be confirmed when she's 16.

What's unfortunate is that a lot of your concerns are simply baseless, you're just getting really bad information from your church/priest.

Cail,

What's unfortunate is that a lot of your concerns are simply baseless, you're just getting really bad information from your church/priest.

??? What of my information is baseless? Trust me, my priest did not tell me there was no Trinity.

bossk wrote:Um, wow... that's about the time I'd change the locks. My parents never in their wildest dreams would have had a key to my apartment in the first place. That be messed up.

bossk wrote:As for confirmation, I've always had difficulty with the rituals of religion. Saying that someone needs to do X or Y at a certain age doesn't, to me, address their spiritual growth at all. I much prefer "this person should do X or Y when they are ready for it - not before". It just undermines belief in general to make people do things they aren't spiritually thirsty for.

Agreed on both counts.

Someone has apparently told you that Christianity is the only way to salvation. That is patently untrue, and I have never ever heard anything of the sort in Mass or from my priest.

That's what I meant.

Cail,

Ah. I see. Well, yeah apparently I misunderstood that part, but it's only one of my more minor gripes at the moment.

Cail wrote:Someone has apparently told you that Christianity is the only way to salvation. That is patently untrue, and I have never ever heard anything of the sort in Mass or from my priest.

And yet this is something I hear from christians all the time, lay and clergy alike. If you haven't accepted christ as your "saviour," been "washed in the blood," etc. then you're out of luck when it comes to whatever happes after. Hell. Saviour -- Salvation -- Saved.

Maybe the Catholic church doesn't believe that, but then I think they should be making it a lot clearer, because as far as I was concerned, that's what all christianity is about. You accept christ as saviour, you're saved. You don't, you can't be. (Unless you had no knowledge of christ before your death.)

Regardless, LM, it's not something that anyone can decide for you. The best advice is to do what makes you feel best about it. If that's going through with it for the sake of your family, then go for it. If it's not doing it for the sake of yourself, then do that instead. We can talk about it as much as we want, but in the end, you have to live with your choice either way.

--Avatar

Avatar wrote:And yet this is something I hear from christians all the time, lay and clergy alike. If you haven't accepted christ as your "saviour," been "washed in the blood," etc. then you're out of luck when it comes to whatever happes after. Hell. Saviour -- Salvation -- Saved.

That's primarily a Protestant (Baptist) belief I think. My view of religion is inclusive rather than exclusive. I feel very lucky that my faith believes the same.

Hmm. I support the concept in principle, certainly. But then, what is the "requirement" for "salvation" according to Catholicism?

--A

The requirement for Catholics is that they believe in the Trinity. But (at least in my experience with the Church), that does not mean that if you're not Catholic, you don't get into Heaven. When I was going through RCIA, I specifically asked if Jews were going to heaven. the answer was, "Of course".

So then how do folks who don't believe in the Trinity get "saved"? (If you know.) (Dennis!)

--A

Well, if you're Catholic, you don't. If you're not, and you subscribe to another belief system (Judaism, Islam, etc), then I suppose you've got to follow those tennants.

You mean the tenets of the particular belief system that you subscribe to? So, if we follow this line of reasoning, then simply abiding by the rules of your religion, whatever that religion might be will assure your salvation, even if those tenets are opposed or contradictory to christian ones? I could certainly accept that as a fair approach.

--A

That's precisely what I'm saying. It's not necessarily what you believe, it's that you believe.

Ah well, I'm shit outta luck then, aren't I?



Of course, I assume that "fringe" religions like satanism aren't included. Wonder what the how the faithful of other religions feel about going to a christian heaven?

Anyway, it makes a theological kind of sense really, in that most religions, regardless of their doctrine, preach the same sort of message of not harming people, and all that. The many faces of god?

A quote I've always loved is:

The technicalities of religion have no place in the minds of god.

--Avatar