What would you cut?

[High Lord Tolkien]

I'm serious folks, read HLT's post on page 1 again. Don't read it as a Covenant fan, or as somebody knowledgable about the books. Read it as though you were a producer with a budget to spend, and a profit in mind, reading a script outline.

It really could be done like that, and without losing the plot...only the essential bits that have made it so worthwhile to us all.

If the writers are really committed to the story, then they'd rightly refuse to do it that way, (and so, one would hope, would SRD if he hadn't sold the rights yet), yet it's definitely a viable version, unpalatable as it may be. *sigh*

Even in a 3-movie set, it's going to be recieved as a LOTR wannabe I very much fear. Quest, War, Retaliation/Victory. Seems failry set-piece, doesn't it? The secret of course, is in the finer detail.

--A

Thanks!
(I didn't like writing it either)
I can't see this as getting a greenlight to make a movie per book.
I mean lets be honest.
TCOTC is not as popular or revered as LotR.
Most people I know knew what LotR was before the movies came out.
Even if they hadn't read it they knew it's reputation as the #1 fantasy saga.
Ask some one about TCOTC and they'll look at you like you asked them to say a tongue twister.
Try explaining the story and you will lose half of them right around the time you mention the leper aspect.
LOL!

Also, think about what we love best about the Land, for me and for most others I bet, it's the *Health*.
How does that translate onto the screen?
Very dificult I would imagine.
I bet most people who haven't read the books are just going to see "beauty".
Which is also nice.

And if I can further "rape" the Chronicles I'd change my screenplay a little.
Mt Thunder not Foul's Creche should be cut.
The volcano imagery is way too close to Mt Doom.
The retrieval of the Staff of Law should be at a new location.
Still make it underground and in catacombs but not below a volcano.
Make the Firelions come up from a chasam in the earth to save the Quest.

Now here's some more trauma.
What affliction could they change leprosy to and still have the same story?
The studio comes back and says "lose the leprosy and the movie is a GO!"
What else works?
AIDS?
Alcoholic?
Or nothing at all?
Make TC lose his fingers in a car accident and make him an uncaring selfish bastard.
Could the story still work in a 2 1/2 hour long movie like this?

[matrixman]

Okay, I've read HLT's and Nerdanel's diabolical summaries. But how will they title their movie?

- simply, The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant?
- Covenant: The Legend of the Unbeliever, ur-Lord of the Land?
- Thomas Covenant and the Raiders of the Lost Land?
- Chronicles of the Land: The Leper, The Waynhim, and the White Gold?
- Thomas Covenant and the Prisoner of Ridjeck Thome?
- Lord Foul's Illearth Power That Doesn't Preserve?

And since you two are on a roll, why not also condense the Second Chronicles into one movie? I await the ensuing travesty with bated breath.

[Avatar]

Diabolical indeed, although, as I said earlier, I'm afraid I preferred HLT's version to Nerdanel's.

I'd guess the 2nd Chrons would fit even easier into a single movie than the first would, afterall, it's a coherent storyline, no breaks for returns to earth.

And much as I hate it, WayFriend is probably right, the Celebration would likely be cut, for reasons I pointed out earlier. If the wraiths appear, they're have a bit part. Like WayFriend said, everything is important, and they're still going to have to cut a lot of stuff.

Nope, I'll stay the purist that I am...give me the books and a rainy weekend rather than the movie. I know they can't do it justice. *sigh* It's just a matter of how badly it'll get butchered, despite Mr Orloff's good intentions. They just won't have the support that'll allow them to remain even as faithful to it as Jackson was to LotR.

--A

--A

[wayfriend]

But how will they title their movie?

Judging by other movies coming out lately, it needs to be called simply

• The First Chronicles of Thomas Covenant The Unbeliever: Lord Foul's Illearth War for the Power that Preserves.

[CovenantJr]

All I have to say at this point is: Keep the boots. The thing with the patches of wrong striking through TC's boots was a big thing for me in LFB. It gave me a feeling of Foul's omnipresence and inescapability.

[wayfriend]

Here's my cut list from the Illearth War:

Susie Thurston -- too much front story
dukha
Lord Kevin's Lament
Glimmermere and the Interpreter of Dreams - no plot advancement
The Death of Myrha
Doriendor Corishev - expand Doom's Retreat, add a city there, and blind Troy there

[Akasri]

And since you two are on a roll, why not also condense the Second Chronicles into one movie? I await the ensuing travesty with bated breath.

I'll help them along with the title: Wounded Tree Wielder



*edit* other option for the first movie:

"Lord Foul's Illearth Preserves" - sounds like something you'd put on toast

[High Lord Tolkien]

All I have to say at this point is: Keep the boots. The thing with the patches of wrong striking through TC's boots was a big thing for me in LFB. It gave me a feeling of Foul's omnipresence and inescapability.

I thought that was Drool.

[dlbpharmd]

Oh, the pain, the pain!

[The Somberlain]

Here's my cut list from the Illearth War:

Susie Thurston -- too much front story
dukha
Lord Kevin's Lament
Glimmermere and the Interpreter of Dreams - no plot advancement
The Death of Myrha
Doriendor Corishev - expand Doom's Retreat, add a city there, and blind Troy there

I think they could also have the story of Korik's mission told in just one flashback - or maybe just tell it "normally", side by side with Troy and Covenant's travels. Some parts of it could definitely be cut; I'd keep the Lurker of the Sarangrave, but maybe get rid of the part where the Ranyhyn falls into the swamp and has to be killed. Or mash the two together. The events during the whole mission would have to be re-jigged a little, but it wouldn't be too atrocious.

Covenant and Elena would probably have to be played down a bit, though. Which kind of works, because the audiences probably don't want too much incest, and there are a lot of parts where they stop for the night and something happens. A couple could be cut, a couple could be made into one stop.

I think parts of the Warward's march could be left out, too. Hile Troy's strategy is pretty complicated at points, the whole bit with the rafts could be left out: Just have Hiltmark Quaan with the Bloodguard going to slow down Foul's army and lead them to Doom's Retreat. And I'd agree about shifting Doriendor Corishev to the end of Doom's Retreat.

[Marv]

if they do a film per book they could afford to do the whole thing with very little cutting of anything, IMHO. the books are not especially long and in the main things like journey time will be cut and there will be obviously less description of the land just the odd great visual. a 3 hour film will encompass it all. 20 mins before covenant gets to the land 45mins to get to lords keep 20/30 mins at lords keep and that gives you 1hour and a half for the main 'action part ' of the film.

obviously not every line of diologue will be in the film but i think they could cut stuff so insignificant that it barely registers with covenant fans and fit the rest of the main parts in.

personally i would cut drool and just have foul as the main protaginist.

just checked and LFB is 375 pages, Illearth war is 416 TPTP is 359....it would be tight but with good film makers it would be POSSIBLE

[Seafoam Understone]

If those of you have read my attempt at the script you'll see that I've tried to minimize the "over-long" scenes and tried to squeeze them into maybe two or two and half minute long blocks of story telling.
I liked how Jackson did the method of shortening "over-long" scenes by quick edits... i.e. the trek by the Fellowship to the Mines of Moria and the internal journey (which in the book took four days)... and also repeated with Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli's chase to rescue Merry and Pippin from the Orcs. Basically the highlights of the scene(s).
Covenant and Atarian's trek to the Soulsease did take a long time and I tried to write it as scenes showing them walking from one day to the next.
Same with Foamfollower's exertion to get Covenant and his message to Revelstone.

For those interested... sadly life is getting in the way of my continuing the writing of the script... that and the heartily discouraging fact that a script has already been written for Lord Foul's Bane.

Have considered pre-writing the Second Chronicles just in case that Hollywood decides to run with the series. Of course only the success of Lord Foul's Bane will determine if the series will continue or not...

Oh in relation to another thread... while many of them are NOT that great... straight to video might be an option for Hollywood.

[IrrationalSanity]

Can I be a broken record here? (This thread gives me the perfect opportunity).

If I were to make a movie that I wanted to to be successful, the first thing I would cut would be...

The first three books!

Bring in certain elements as needed (e.g. include a prologue, use flashbacks, etc...) but otherwise the 2nd Chronicles is so much more cinematic to start with, I think the task is at least doable without causing serious trauma to the story. You would still need to make it as three films, but at least you get films that "normal" people would want to see.

[Cail]

I agree the second Chrons are more cinematic, but there's too much important stuff in the first Chrons to just deal with in flashbacks. I could see the first three books crammed into a 3 hour film, though.

[Akasri]

The 2nd trilogy works so well, in a large part, because you read the first trilogy. You care about the Land because you lived in it along with Covenant for three books prior to TWL.

You couldn't make a movie of just the 2nd trilogy - the audience wouldn't be able to connect to the Land in a way that is necessary for the story. And nobody would understand why Covenant was so willing to fight for it the way he did without seeing the first books.

[IrrationalSanity]

I disagree. I think most folks could identify with beauty desecrated, and just a little backstory can go a lot farther than you might think in a movie. Also remember that we aren't talking about "a" movie, but rather at least three movies. You can afford to dedicate whatever time is needed provide enough background for the story you are currently telling.

[High Lord Tolkien]

I'm with Akasri.
What made the 2nd Chronicles so powerful/emotional was the destruction of the Land.
To convey that through flashbacks isn't going to be as effective, imho.

[IrrationalSanity]

I'm more thinking of a prologue than flashbacks, essentially filming a "What has gone before." That could be from as little as 5, to as much as 30, minutes of the first movie.

We don't need the whole thing, just Covenant's leaprosy; the land's beauty and healing; wood and stone lore; an indication of the rape; Giants, urviles, and waynhimn; the Lords; the Bloodguard; Kevin and desecration; Drool, the Staff and the Stone; mention the fight against Foul, but we don't need alot of detail there - We'll meet him soon enough. The Rite of Spring should be included in this, as it in and of itself introduces so many of these concepts.

Seriously, I believe you can distill the "cinema friendly" elements of the first Chronicles into something like that, and be ready to tell the "second" story.

[Warmark]

If those of you have read my attempt at the script you'll see that I've tried to minimize the "over-long" scenes and tried to squeeze them into maybe two or two and half minute long blocks of story telling.

Which thread has your script in it?

[SleeplessOne]

Desecration !!

an old thread, but I'm bored and wanna add my two cents : the original Revelstone Productions goal was to produce one movie for the first book of the chrons, LFB. Now let's say they'd wanted to keep it under 2 and a half hours (people might be daunted by the prospect of another overlong fantasy epic, so pacing would be important, but not at the expense of so much that makes TCOTC great ..) - imo that gives plenty of time to develop the major plot points ... I could live with a few cuts from the actual Quest for the Staff ...

the way I sees it :

* introduction of TC, walking into town to pay his bill as per the book. Leprosy stays, women's hearts quail etc.
* Covenant briefly sights the beggar/Creator, who should obviously look outta place and oddly powerful.
* flashbacks of the Leprosarium are crucial; those scenes played out like straight-horror in my mind, a director would be remiss to overlook such an opportunity to horrify an audience. Covenant's decision to fight for life by adhering to his strict lifestyle are forged in these scenes, they can't be glossed over.
* TC's impotent pinings over teenage girls can lead into further flashbacks detailing the loss of his wife, child and friends; TC's loneliness and isolation are just as important to emphasise as his illness.
* Cut the 'fundamental question of ethics'. TC re-encounters the beggar/Creator , TC offers his ring and their odd conversation takes place.
* TC walks in front of a police car, fade to black except for the remaining sight of the police car's red lights, red light splits and appear to turn into eyes that advance in the overwhelming darkness.
That should all be covered within 20-25 intense minutes.

* TC finds himself in Kiril Threndor and is briefly confronted by the monsterous Drool Rockworm (who stays - Foul doesnt do his own dirty work, plus that initial encounter with a Cavewight is an integral part of TC's introduction to his alien experience)
* Foul intervenes and espouses an edited version of his doomsday spiel - the prophecy stays, the sly offer of health stays, perhaps the longs story of the Desecration can be imparted elsewhere to streamline the scene a little.
* TC's grovelling causes offense, and he is translated to Kevins Watch within a grey cloud.
* TC views the Land for the first time, Lena arrives, TC freaks out a little. His vertigo needn't be included at all, his fear of abrasions and cuts from his descent suffice. The descent from the Watch needn't be quite as lenghty or dramatic, yet should still emphasise TC's physical fragility and his unwillingness to compromise on his life-preserving habits.
* Lena babbles a bit and finds some Hurtloam whilst TC experiences his first feelings of Health-sense. Lena can explain Earthpower at this point. TC's cuts and abrasions are miraculously healed, a short time later feeling returns to his dead nerves (of course in the book this happens a little more gradually, its not untill Tricok cuts TC that he realises feeling has been restored to his hands) - TC freaks out a little more.
That section should can be covered in 20 minutes at the most.

* upon his arrival at Mithil Stonedown, TC's resemblance to Berek is discussed , and his wedding ring is also remarked upon by Lena's family. TC gives himself his Unbeliever title and tells Atiaran of Fouls prophecy. Atiaran resolves to deliver TC to Revelstone and the Lords so that he may deliver his message.
* Skip Atiaran's singing, but show a little of the harmonious Stonedown community (and the power of the Gravelingas, Trell)
* TC freaks out a little, Lena takes him for a lil' night walk, tells him the story of Kevin Landwaster to take his mind off things and give him some perspective of the Land's history and the Oath of Peace. Unable to reconcile his unbelief in the Land and his regenerating nerves, TC freaks out a LOT and rapes Lena. Lena leaves TC and hides in outside of her Stonedown in the dark. fade out, 15 minutes should cover that lot ...

* Atiaran finds TC and compells him to depart with her on their journey to Revelstone, unaware of Lena's ravishment. Cue travellin' montage, hints of pursuit.
* I'd put the murdered Waynhim at the desecrated Waymeet ahead of TC's encounter with Tricok, keep the exotic stuff coming I says.
* Triock catches up with Atiaran and informs her of TC's crime, Atiaran sticks to her Oath of Peace - Drool Rockworm's savage storm should come hot on the heels of this revelation, not long after Triock's dismayed depature.
* TC alters the course of the storm with inadvertant wild magic. Atiaran guides them to Soaring Woodhelven. A deceptively short 10 minutes.

* Atiaran and TC are subjected to the paranoia of the Woodhevennin, they explain the story of Jehannum (cue cool flashback scene) and their concern about the ill-omened TC.
* TC endures the test of truth, the Baradakas scenes should remain in a streamlined form. TC is released for good or ill by the Woodhelvennin after they accept he's too bad-ass for their petty tests .. 10-15 minutes, depending on how much fun the director wanted to have with the scary Jehannum scene (given that nothing really bad happens, I just found it so unsettling to think of that nasty ol' Raver freely moving among the magnificent Soaring Woodhelven, spreading bad vibes)

* a few quick edits should get the duo to Andelain for the Celebration.
The appearance of the Wraiths should have all the magic of a Close Encounter of the Third Kind.
* Enter Ur-viles and mayhem. TC and Atiaran escape to the sounds of the Unfettered One's death.
* The moon starts to rise red at night. 15 minutes. Tops.

* Atiaran can stands no more and hands over TC to a passing Giant (that'd be Foamfollwer) Giant and TC become unlikely friends on their river-journey to Revelstone. Abridged story of the Unhomed and Damelon's prophecy, plus a few gags .. 5-10 minutes.

* TC delivers his message pretty much straight after his arrival at Revelstone and introduction to Mhoram, Quaan and the Bloodguard.
* Lord Prothall proposes a Quest for the Staff of Law. Ranyhyn are summoned 5-10 minutes.

* after a few ill-encounters with patches of 'wrong' on the ground TC's boots are removed making the Quest 'untraceable' so after responding to word of trouble at Soaring Woohelven, where an almighty battle ensues, they skip Morinmoss and the Plains of Ra and head straight for Mount Thunder, with a little peek at Landsdrop thrown in for good measure
* Cue montage of full blood-red moon, unnatural storms and Covenant's red ring (snigger) as the Quest nears its destination. 15 minutes.

* then quickly navigate the catacombs, struggle for the Staff, give the Fire Lions a quick call and get the hell back to the 'real' world - an action-packed 25 minutes.

Easy !



[/b]