What God Wants *Debate (Believers Welcome, But Be Warned)*

Post by **CovenantJr** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:56 pm

Fist and Faith wrote:Drink your big Black Cow, and get outta here!

CovenantJr wrote:My sentiments exactly, having read Kins' posts. Though I'm no lover of religion, I'm also no lover of science. Is the evolution of science over time exactly the point?
Ah, you're always saying stuff like this. But you say it on the internet, which was intentionally designed by science, using computers, which are also completely intentional inventions, all of which uses pesky subatomic particles, which do what we tell them to do under certain circumstances, etc etc. When you scroll up or down the screen, there's nothing actually moving up or down. It's just different parts of the screen lighting one color or another, or going black. And we can make them light up or go black because science has figured out a few things.

There might be one or two other things you use every single day that were intentionally created by people using the knowledge science has given us. Telephones, radios, automobiles, microwave ovens... None of these things were accidental inventions. Many of the principles underlying them were surprising discoveries, to be sure. But then these principles were studied, and understood. And finally, someone said, "Hey, you know what I can do with this principle?" And now we can talk into a machine, convert the sound to radio waves, bounce the waves off of a satellite in orbit around the earth!, and reconvert the radio waves back into sound on the other side of the planet.

I'm sorry that I don't remember off hand where to find your posts with specific problems you have with science, but I'd like to hear them. Care to share?

I dislike science for the same reason Edge, Tracie and others believe in god: feeling. Science feels all wrong to me. I can't be more specific than that.

My dislike of mathematics is more rational, and I think we've been through it before

Post by **sgt.null** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:46 pm

Black Russians are just about the perfect drinks.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:08 pm

ur-bane, speed-dating is when many men and many women are in the same room. One group stays at their table the whole time, and the members of the other group rotate through all of the tables, changing every several minutes. So you have tiny dates with many different people. You make note of which people you'd like to go out with, and the people running the show put you in contact with the people who marked you as someone they'd like to meet again.

CovenantJr wrote:I dislike science for the same reason Edge, Tracie and others believe in god: feeling. Science feels all wrong to me. I can't be more specific than that.

It may feel wrong to you, but do you dispute what I said? Do you claim science has not intentionally accomplished more extraordinary things - good (stuff I mentioned, greater crop production, the eradication of small pox, etc) and bad (atomic weapons certainly springs to mind) - than we could possibly count? I'm not giving you grief for the heck of it (although it is fun

), but to see if you can pinpoint where your problem with science lies. I don't see how anyone can deny its impact, so maybe there's a way to make you feel differently about it?

CovenantJr wrote:My dislike of mathematics is more rational, and I think we've been through it before

Heh.

Post by **The Laughing Man** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:55 pm

good point, fisty!
Science is a good tool, but not a good Master. Technology cannot define what we are as humans, or decide how we act towards each other.

Post by **Avatar** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:24 am

The Esmer wrote:Technology cannot define what we are as humans, or decide how we act towards each other.

Not that I think Fist is or would suggest that, but it sounds like a point that Cj would consider perfectly valid, if not important, as well.

(Thanks for the link Esmer, but quite apart from the fact that the currency exchange is a killer, and that I'll probably have to pay a 100% import tax, the delivery system here is erratic at best, and I don't think I'd trust a bottle of Vodka to it, unless they have their own couriers. I'll save the link though, you never know. Otherwise, it'll just have to wait til I'm in London again. I know a little Polish shop where you can get it easily.)

Hey guys, we can do the math thing again too if you like. It's just that I'm so phenomenally ignorant of it, that I too have to base my comments on "feelings" about it.

--Avatar

Post by **CovenantJr** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:53 pm

Fist and Faith wrote:It may feel wrong to you, but do you dispute what I said? Do you claim science has not intentionally accomplished more extraordinary things - good (stuff I mentioned, greater crop production, the eradication of small pox, etc) and bad (atomic weapons certainly springs to mind) - than we could possibly count?

I don't deny its impact at all, or the fact that many good things have resulted from science. But that's also true, on a smaller scale, of...say...totalitarian dictatorship. Some good impact, some bad impact - doesn't mean it's the best way to do things, and I feel the same way about science.

Avatar wrote:It's just that I'm so phenomenally ignorant of it

Me too

I dislike maths because it doesn't exist. Let's leave it at that - this isn't the place

Post by **Nathan** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 9:57 pm

Avatar wrote:It's just that I'm so phenomenally ignorant of it

What the hell? Avatar is ignorant? Have I inadvertantly walked through an interdimensional portal?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:25 pm

CovenantJr wrote:I don't deny its impact at all, or the fact that many good things have resulted from science. But that's also true, on a smaller scale, of...say...totalitarian dictatorship. Some good impact, some bad impact - doesn't mean it's the best way to do things, and I feel the same way about science.

OH! That's different. All these months, I thought you were saying you don't think science is capable of finding the kinds of answers some of us have been saying it does.

As for what you just said, any way of doing things can be done with love, or with hate; with attention to detail, or with mistakes at every step. All approaches are done by us, which means we can do them well or badly, and we nearly always end up doing them both ways at some point.

The Modest Gentleman wrote:What the hell? Avatar is ignorant? Have I inadvertantly walked through an interdimensional portal?

Post by **The Laughing Man** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:59 pm

The Modest Gentleman wrote:
Avatar wrote:It's just that I'm so phenomenally ignorant of it
What the hell? Avatar is ignorant? Have I inadvertantly walked through an interdimensional portal?

HAHA! It's called a "ceasure" now, TMG!

And he's not ignorant! Just "creationally challenged"!

YO! THE FIST! Dig that new avatar, yo!

Post by **Sunbaneglasses** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:16 am

Well if you just read this page you would think God wants you to try as many alchoholic drinks as possible-so to that end I used to find amaretto sours fortified with a little light rum quite tasty.But who knows what God wants you to drink?

Post by **The Laughing Man** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:20 am

mmmmmm.....The Esmer/Google knows........

Post by **variol son** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:23 am

In my opinion, god loves Absolut Raspberry with Coke. I mean c'mon. I like it.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:01 am

The Esmer wrote:YO! THE FIST! Dig that new avatar, yo!

Thanks, The Esmer!

In case you're not familiar, it's the cover of GILDEN-FIRE. My original av was a smaller version of it without the words. Then Edge did this for me. Now I'm back to it.

Post by **The Laughing Man** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:29 am

sweeeeet! I just received the first 2 Chronicles from amazon.com, and have never read Gilden Fire, never heard of it until I recently found ROTE. I read the books as they were being published before, and dam did I hate waiting for the next one. Those books were burned into my brain, so I'm looking for a copy of that. I did read some rather "less than fond" reviews on that one tho. did you like it? or is that just a big dumb question re: your avatar? haha!

BTW, Edge, :yourock:

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:34 am

Big dumb question.

It's a fantastic chapter!!! I understand and agree with the reasons for taking it out of TIW, but I'm thrilled that we have it!

And The Esmer is in luck, because it is in Daughter of Regals, which was reprinted when Runes came out. So there ya go!

Post by **Furls Fire** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:40 am

Fist and Faith wrote:
The Esmer wrote:YO! THE FIST! Dig that new avatar, yo!
Thanks, The Esmer! In case you're not familiar, it's the cover of GILDEN-FIRE. My original av was a smaller version of it without the words. Then Edge did this for me. Now I'm back to it.

Oh thank God. That flashy thing was blinding me!

Post by **The Laughing Man** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 3:49 am

aaaaahh, Daughter of Regals.....cool. I can do that. Cail and I were discussing our shared "hesitiation" to read other works by SRD for fear of "ruining the specialness"

of the TC series by finding traces of it in other fiction series by him. He has since gotten over his fear, alas, I have not, especially now with C3, but since that is more in the line of short stories, I think I will risk it. Gotta have that Bloodguard, gnome sane?

Furls Fire wrote:Oh thank God. That flashy thing was blinding me!

you're kidding, right?

Post by **Furls Fire** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:28 pm

His old av, Esmer, was the blinding flashy thing ... sigh ...

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:32 pm

Anything for Furls.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:55 pm

The Esmer wrote:aaaaahh, Daughter of Regals.....cool. I can do that.

Not necessarily. My copy of Daughter of Regals doesn't contain Gilden-Fire. A shame, since that's the main reason I bought it.

Kevin's Watch

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What God Wants Debate (Believers Welcome, But Be Warned)