What Do You Think Today?

[Kizza]

Ah Peter, it makes me wonder what Spike would say.
Imagine what he would think of Brexit as compared to a fly on his soup? Strong chance it would be anti establishment and incorrect on all HR levels.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FBig5p0yBNE

Anyways I hope you are all well. It was a long and happy festive season around our way. One more week off and then I go back to the hi ho.

[Skyweir]

Oooh thats a nice long break for you Kizza.

Yeah I agree with Av on the monarchy point .. too .. one day youll laugh about all this shit Pete. Despite the potential implications for coming generations.

[peter]

Not read this one Av. If I find it in a second hand book basket I'll buy it; let fate or the law of unlikely coincidence play it's hand.

Yes well - if it's so time for change - then why not take the bull by the horns and change everything. I'm massively unimpressed with Corbyn's performance through all of this; he has cynically sat on the fence and looked to his own interest rather than being honest about his position.......but in fairness he'd be screwed if he came out and said the truth (ie that he's a full on Brexit supporter). But he's actually an anti monarchist as well as a Brexiteer; maybe the two changes should go hand in glove. What otherwise is to stop the situation I outline above from coming to pass?

[Skyweir]

First, there is only token power held by the British monarchy. But yes it is a big part of the English institution, class society, the divides between the haves and not have not so muches. Change like that you speak of Pete, would take some significant effort, commitment and is truly unlikely to happen in our life times.

And such radical changes .. usually only occur with significant violence and upheaval.. at least historically speaking.

AND youvewrightly identified who holds the power and advantage in British society .. can you imagine them voluntarily acquiesce there power and advantage...

AND despite Corbyn, who I agree is a tosser and a waste of space if Im honest .. who is anti monarchy .. youd have to convince the common person to embrace your plan .. as the monarchy, at least the last time I looked are quite dear still to them. So you would have to completely the popular mind set.

You would have had more chance getting rid of the monarchy after Queen Victoria .. Edward wasnt popular and it was indeed a prospect under consideration broadly.

[peter]

Totally agree it's not going to happen Sky - and neither do I particularly want it to. Governance/constitutions etc are a necessary evil. Democracy is simply the best of a bad bunch in my eyes. But we are not at a point where we can self-organise, self-govern yet. In the face of this, the system we have at least does not have the downside that I would likely hear the dreaded knock on the door at 3am for making such a post. Given this, and that human nature is such that whoever is at the top of the pile is going to milk it, monarchy is no better, no worse than any other forms of top down system. I'm just pissed at the way we have all been let down is all.

[Skyweir]

I get that ... I do.

But heres the thing. It was never going to be a walk in the park .. tbh it was a stupidly worded referendum, that left too much open .. hard Brexit, soft Brexit, a firmer than soft Brexit, who wants what, whos agenda does it serve, and who gets to do it and cop all the crap for it.

Mays hay day? Not likely.. shes no more than the holding the gun to her own head. It was always going to be political suicide for whoever got hand balled Brexit.

Has she let you all down? Sure .. has she had much opportunity to appease and satisfy all parties, all concerns, all variables .. I think there is no honest answer that would say yes. If anyone were to take that tack, theyre all talk.

It is what it is. The British people need to decide to get on. board and support the worst of it .. or commit to life long whinge and resolve to bitch about it in perpetuity.

Either work with what you have or take the EU route .. ie their Brexit.

You have a select number of suboptimum options. Thats the reality. Thats also in part a consequence of this entire process.

Hope you dont feel Im being too callous. I dont mean to offend.

[peter]

Not in the slightest.

it had always been my intention to keep my personal view out of the Brexit thread; I wanted it to be a clinical account for the benefit of non-uk Watchers - but of course it's difficult. That's why I post my personal take here in this thread rather than [by-and-large] in the other.

Still feel that if only they had had the foresight to make the referendum vote a two-stage affair - one to decide whether to proceed at the beginning, and a second [confirmatory] vote when the exit deal was known, then so much of the problem we currently face could have been avoided.

[Avatar]

That would have required foresight though...

--A

[Skyweir]

It certainly would have avoided a lot of the process angst if they had applied some forethought.. but hindsight is always 20 20, no?

[peter]

Just seen a bit of morning TV; some guy has enraged the twittwers by posting that having children is not by any means the best lifestyle choice that one can make. He has two, aged two and three, and says they can be frustrating, infuriating and life-destabilising. He says they are rarely a pleasure to be with and that the decision to have them is by no means always the best or correct one. Predictably he is being eaten for breakfast, but there is a modicum of support for him from people who feel that his outpouring is way overdue in a society that seems to be intent on blinkering itself [and looking askance] at anything that might represent the other side of the coin from that of the rose-tinted 'happy ever after' version of events.

From my point of view I have limited sympathy for him I'm afraid. This guy is experiencing what every other couple and singleton who ever raised a kid before them has experienced - and has warned about in a myriad ways from day one of the process. He cannot say he wasn't warned; unless he lived his life in a vacuum and never had any contact with a child-rearer in his life - or a child running amok in public come to that - he cannot but have been aware of what he was letting himself in for. No, the difference is this; while every other parent who ever lived sat fulminating over a cup of coffe thinking exactly the same, his brain by-passed the thinking about what he was thinking stage and went straight into throwing it out into the public mode. There are a million things all of us think every day that we sift out and do not engage our tongues to iterate - but armed with thumbs and a mobile phone, this absolutely necessary safeguarding filter seems to be rendered redundant at a stroke.

[Avatar]

Well, obviously I agree with him totally. But then, there's a reason I don't have any children.

--A

[Skyweir]

Youre absolutely right Pete... it would seem that this age of technology and social media has shed the need for filters and empathy.

But its the same on the internet... and maybe that is the key ... as today we hide behind a guise of anonymity to some degree. We hold it like a shield to hide the truth that words DO matter, people do matter. Yet we feel empowered by this oh so tenuous freedom to say what the fuck we want, no matter it be falsehoods, offensive, down right rude etc.

I see it everywhere its quickly become the new normal the BAU, the new language.

Of course there are those .. political leaders like Boris Johnson who takes pleasure in singing from the Trump Playbook.

But its become the age of bullies and those who cower to them for fear of becoming victims themselves. We dare not challenge a bully .. but we should ... absolutely at every turn. Cos if not us, then who? And the thoughtless statements made live on to influence.

As for the kiddy thing .. yes agree raiding kids isnt all sunshine and rainbows . Its hard, its hormones, its angsty.... but what an incredible return for investment

Maybe Im biased but I adore all my kids... love them with a passion .. and proud of the beautiful humans they each have become. I love having them in my life .. my life is so much richer because of them

[Avatar]

You have to think that...

--A

[Skyweir]

No I truly really dont. Though I can see your perspective that its .... the mum code ... that we all secretly swear to during labour lol

Dont get me wrong kids arent for everyone .. and should not be for some ... absolutely.

But then Im an advocate for parenting licenses

[Avatar]

Haha, me too!

--A

[peter]

Michael Gove, then education secretary, got himself into trouble for saying that thirty percent of people who have children were not fit to bring them up. While this is a bit extreme for my taste, I do on a daily basis encounter acts of both omission and comission in respect of parenting that make my blood boil. I cautioned a lady to "watch your little lass (about three years old) heading for the automatic doors - the cars spin around the corner way to fast out there." (Literally right in front of our doors with no paving between the shop and the carpark.) He response was an insouciant "Oh, she's pretty good with traffic" as she continued perusing the bars of chocolate with her back to the child.

I see stuff like this every day.

[Cord Hurn]

That is certainly worrisome, peter.

[Skyweir]

Ugh .. once it borders on wilful ignorance or arguably wilful negligence .. makes my blood boil too Pete.

3 year olds are typically and characteristically curious .. as well as being typically oblivious ... to dangers, like those traffic present

[Vraith]

But then, there's a reason I don't have any children.

--A

Basically all the nieces and nephews [and now grands of those] I sat for/spent time with believe I am the best---practically superhuman in my Uncle-ness.
The reasons for that assessment are identical to the reasons that would make me a horror-show [according to many] as a parent.

I honestly don't see the problem with the parent that thought the 3-ish kid was good with traffic. For all anyone knows, the kid WAS...and there are much worse things parents do, even in public.

[Skyweir]

True V .. though its so unlikely a 3yo is actually... good with traffic ... I mean what does that even mean anyway? LOL She can leap, dive and weave through oncoming traffic?

It would be quite remarkable if she was .... good with traffic.

Its awesomeness that you are the worlds best uncle though. Kudos to you.