Kevin's Watch

just seemed like the books said, that he was chosen exactly because he had been what he was, and suffered what he had, and his personality would ultimately lead him down the right path so that he could make the right choices...

This is also basically what I got out of the choice of Covenant--the Creator chose Covenant because he was well acquainted with despair and was a pseudo-creator through his novel. Though I think from the conversation with the Creator at the end of TPTP, his winning over Foul in the First Chrons was by no means a sure thing. It was essential that Covenant had free choice, and because he did, he could choose not to help, and the Creator could not help him to succeed. (Interesting how Donaldson's creator-being is himself powerfull and powerless.) Please correct me with quotes if necessary.

As for the nature and character of this board...I hardly ever post the the few other boards I look in on. I post on this one because of the universally friendly, open attitudes I've encountered here.

RDGO_50,
You have a very valid view of things, imo. Regarding the idea that the Creator cannot enter the Arch of Time without breaking it, I kind of picture Foamfollower trying to squeeze into a VW Beetle. Maybe the amount of power the Creator has simply cannot be contained inside of the Arch.

Regarding the whole "flip-side of the coin", maybe, maybe not. The legend that Tamarantha told in LFB didn't know:

"Then he understood or remembered. Perhaps he found Despite itself beside him, misguiding his hand. Or perhaps he saw the harm in himself. It does not matter. He became outraged with grief and torn pride. In his fury he wrestled with Despite, either within or without, and in his fury he cast the Despiser down, out of the infinity of the cosmos onto the Earth."

I don't see anything confirming one view or the other, so I'll accept theories of either.

W.B. wrote:(Interesting how Donaldson's creator-being is himself powerfull and powerless.)

Ah! A favorite topic of mine! Here are a few quotes about this idea.

"Sun-Sage, this thing which you name Earthpower is our Würd. You believe it to be a thing of suzerain might. In sooth, your belief is just. But have you come so far across the Earth without comprehending the helplessness of power? We are what we are - and what we are not, we can never become. He whom you name the Despiser is a being of another kind entirey. We are effectless against him. That is our Würd." - Infelice

"You have seen that I possess an ocular of gold. Purest gold - a rare and puissant metal in such hands as mine. With such aids, my arts work great wonders, of which Sandgorgons Doom is not the greatest. But my arts are also pure, as a circle is pure, and in a flawed world purity cannot endure. Thus within each of my works I must perforce place one small flaw, else there would be no work at all." - Kasreyn of the Gyre

"The sea's name is inien, well and good. But what we call the Inmost Sea has its own name also in the Old Speech. Since no thing can have two true names, inien can mean only 'all the sea except the Inmost Sea.' And of course it does not mean even that, for there are seas and bays and straits beyond counting that bear names of their own. So if some Mage-Seamaster were mad enough to try to lay a spell of storm or calm over all the ocean, his spell must say not only that word inien, but the name of every stretch and bit and part of the sea through all the Archipelago and all the Outer Reaches and beyond to where names cease. Thus, that which gives us the power to work magic, sets the limits of that power. A mage can control only what is near him, what he can name exactly and wholly." - Kurremkarmerruk, the Master Namer

Yes indeed, the powerful are often powerless!!

actually this is also a passionate favourite of mine .. the notion that Donaldson's creator has flaws!

and the way he addressed TC at the end of TPTP .. confirmed his vulnerability .. no matter how limited in the grand scheme of things. I love that SRD is sooo brilliant that he showed Gods to be higher but not so much different to humankind ..

this whole notion of impotence as not only the anti-thesis of potency but also a part of it .. is incredibly fascinating and intriguing

Kasreyn of the gyre as Han-Shan wrote:in a flawed world purity cannot endure. Thus within each of my works I must perforce place one small flaw, else there would be no work at all

I love the notion of a flawed creator .. a being that is engaged in a process that has no end .. of learning .. growing .. within his role and power .. powerful yet also powerless .. as is inevitable for any who act within laws and lore ..

The Creator is limited by the laws set in the universe .. by his absolute and complete fealty and respect for that which exists on an elemental level .. laws of the Universe .. laws of existence ..

even he is bound within these very real concepts .. SRD gives his creator credibilty imho .. by writing him thus .. and to me this is pure genius .. as the norm imo is a God written in effect - in a mythical and incredulous fashion .. as omniscient & omnipotent.

and sure by comparison to mere mortals .. who are perhaps at the very beginning of a greater learning.

I love the creation of imperfect and flawed gods .. they are so much more personable .. LOL

Whether TC, Foul and the Creator are one in the same is more difficult to establish at this point imho .. yet if the theory that the Land is but a contrivance of TC's need for escape from his undesirable reality .. then if he and Foul are connected in some way .. then why not also the Creator being.

I hope personally that the plot does not develop producing this end result .. as I personally am convinced the Land is NOT a figment and fabrication of TC's subconscious mind/psyche.

well, if hes making a third chronicle, then...covenants dead, right? and the laws have been restored, right? i mean, hes not gonna actually come back, is he? i mean, he died in the first one, and linden was with him, and those guys that stabbed covenant in the second chronicles to get him to the Land were servants of foul, so, saying the Land is just a creation of his subconscious is just absurd...






























right?

Oh, he can come back. SRD himself said "With both the Laws of Life and Death broken, there is no reason why Covenant can't come back." Not exactly sure what is meant by that. But I'm sure SRD will make it very very interesting

I personally don't care if The Land is internal or external, because it's only the internal aspects that are important to me (besides which, even a shared delusion is more probable than being transported to an alternate universe... not to mention it's fiction, and as such, not strictly bound to laws of rationality).

And yes, I have complete faith in the Creator (aka Steve).

true .. but it has to hold water and what SRD has created .. does hold water .. and stands up to significant scrutiny and analysis.

we would poo-poo a concept that was totally in-credible .. it has to have some substance in rationality imho .. even if fiction.

and TC has to come back .. it is his 3rd chronicles .. the 3rd set in a series of stories about him lol ..

i cant conceive of a 3rd chrons.. without TC

yes, but with a new staff of law being forged, the broken laws were restored...id assume...unless hes going with the arguement that the laws were broken even with the staff of law...so...i dunno...i dont like when they bring back dead people in comics, so maybe im just a little skeptical..


but, as was said before..i trust Donaldsons storytelling ability

I think that is what the whole time gig may be about, going back in time to when law was broken to bring covenant into the present. It worked in the Dark Tower series. I think that'll be what the first book is primarily centered around getting Covenant alive, or at least able to tangibly manipulate things in the land, or maybe in the real world too, but at least the land.

Yeah..The Last Dark....is going to rock.

theDespiser wrote:yes, but with a new staff of law being forged, the broken laws were restored...id assume...unless hes going with the arguement that the laws were broken even with the staff of law...so...i dunno...i dont like when they bring back dead people in comics, so maybe im just a little skeptical..

Well, the Law of Death was broken years before the Staff of Law was destroyed, and in fact the Staff was destroyed because Elena was brought back from the dead to wield it. I don't think the new Staff would have anything to do with the Laws that were broken, any more than a court can convict you for breaking a law that has been repealed.