Kevin's Watch

I don't think Covenant will be brought back "in the flesh". He'll be there, but he's going to be tortured by Foul. Foul, as I said in another thread, is going to use Time to regain his strength (like he did with the Earthpower in the second chrons). And who now is the protector and keystone of Time? Covenant.

This "Don't trust me" rings alarms with me too. We know, by the cryptic hints our story weaver has left us, that Covenant and Foul somehow become one in the same. But, exactly what that is going to mean for Covenant is murky. Does he literally take in Foul and fight an internal battle? Does he take Foul's place? Or in the final merging does the universe cease to exist and become new? (Donaldson pretty much says that is what is going to happen). But, of course, "it's not that easy". We also have Linden, Roger, Joan and Jeremiah roaming about the Land now. Not to mention this incredibly powerful new Staff of Law. Two White Gold rings (one of which WAS Covenant's, that little fact has to play some sort of factor). Will Linden eventually have to confront and somehow fight the man she loves to save a doomed Land? Save the Arch of Time? The Last Dark could mean the end of it all as we know it. Sigh...

It's a losing battle, Fist. I can't help but speculate...it's in my blood I think.

*sigh*

Oh alright!!!

In a way, Covenant becomes to the Arch of Time what the Elohim were to the Earth. Foul did not confront the Elohim directly. But as he corrupted the Earthpower, they were also corrupted. They could not prevent it, because what happened to the Earth happened to them.

And what happens to the Arch of Time will also happen to Covenant. Covenant perceives Foul's changes, but cannot prevent them. He can do amazing things with time/himself, as the Elohim could with Earthpower/themselves, and we'll say, "Why doesn't he stop Foul???" But he's powerless in ways. But, as the Elohim were still free in so many ways, so is Covenant. He can send messages to Linden ("Don't trust me"), and likely lots of other things within the Arch.

So with Foul (still) not able to break the arch because it's Covenant and he IS the white gold ... I wonder what the Land is like. Has Foul corrupted it again? Or is it still hale and whole the way Linden left it.
Another question comes to mind. How many years will have passed in the Land before Linden goes back?
Presumably the Old Man makes another guest-starring appearance and tells her to be True again. I wonder if Covenant speaks to Linden in dreams.
Or am I doing this again??

The latest tOT dissection chapter has brought to mind an echo of earlier chapters in this Chapter's title - Will we see a 'Father's Son'?

When SRD mentioned the so-called "travelling through time" in regards to the land, Im realizing he might not be pondering any cheesy sci-fi time travel at all. If the law of death is broken, the past heroes and leaders of the land can be brought back, living legends that they are, and we readers are then the ones going back in time... hmm...

(moderator's note: This member has read an advance copy of Runes--while he is working with me not to try to spoil too much-if you have no interest in spoilers: I suggest you leave now. If you do read this please do not attempt to discuss it, if at all possible-thanks!-d)

Spoilers!





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Spoiler

Whitegold has to be willingly given, it cannot be taken, hence Foul most likely does not have the ring in his direct possession.

In regards to "Time-Travel," Foul has been so desperate to wield TC's ring because wild magic alone can truly destroy the arch of time. In Runes He is closer to that goal then ever before; an evil, which might find physical manifestations in the land.

The Ring is a conduit to wildmagic, and it is likely that Joan, given her obsession that drove her in-between the 1st and 2nd Chronicles, held her wedding ring as precious.

ShawnPatrick wrote:(moderator's note: This member has read an advance copy of Runes--while he is working with me not to try to spoil too much-if you have no interest in spoilers: I suggest you leave now. If you do read this please do not attempt to discuss it, if at all possible-thanks!-d)

Spoiler

The Ring is a conduit to wildmagic, and it is likely that Joan, given her obsession that drove her in-between the 1st and 2nd Chronicles, held her wedding ring as precious.

Why all of the sudden am I thinking Gollum... heh heh heh

LOL! I think that Roger is evil... And what I loved about this chapter is the loyalty that Linden still has for Covenant... She would do anything for him now. I mean most women would try and move on... but Linden is so wonderfully loyal! Hugs Linden!

<<How many years will have passed in the Land before Linden goes back? >>

By my calculations, the Land/Real time ratio is about 1 Year/Day.

She has aged ten years, so I guess that means ten days have passed, or 3,650 years, depending on the gender of your ratio.

Yes, 10 Years real time = about 3650 years (not counting leaps) Land time. Recall that it was around 10 years between TPTP and TWL, and it was "a score of centuries" for Foul to prepare the Sunbane, and it had been ravaging the land for almost another score. If we push TWL back to the later part of the year (just before the eleventh anniversary) you can add another 350 day-years to the 3650, making 4000, or two score centuries.

In the One Tree TC used his ring and tried to send Linden back to our world so that she could try to save his life. What if in doing so he broke a law of separation between the Land and our world. this could and might make it easier for Foul or even one of his Ravers to manipulate or possess Joan or Roger.

Just an idea, since it seems that Laws of the Land were made to be broken.

That's an interesting thought. In LFB and TIW the Staff of Law was always required to summon Covenant. In TPTP Covenant was able to be summoned to the Land (twice) because he was so near death. In WGW specific requirements, including flame, blood, pain and Covenants acqueisence were required. But to my knowledge Covenant's attempt to send Linden from the world of the Land back to the "real world" is the only time that a "reverse summoning" was attempted - in other words, an attempt to send someone from the Land to the Earth. So perhaps now it is easier for LF to reach across from the Land to Earth. Very interesting!

Fist and Faith wrote:And perhaps Covenant is the white gold because of what it means to him. Somebody who buys a trinket of the metal would not necessarily consider it to be as much a part of them as Covenant does.

And as Joan does.

And as Linden does, keeping it on a chain underneath her shirt.

dlbpharmd wrote:That's an interesting thought. In LFB and TIW the Staff of Law was always required to summon Covenant. In TPTP Covenant was able to be summoned to the Land (twice) because he was so near death. In WGW specific requirements, including flame, blood, pain and Covenants acqueisence were required. But to my knowledge Covenant's attempt to send Linden from the world of the Land back to the "real world" is the only time that a "reverse summoning" was attempted - in other words, an attempt to send someone from the Land to the Earth. So perhaps now it is easier for LF to reach across from the Land to Earth. Very interesting!

Your and Nightraven's posts are both excellent and seem like something that would really fit in well as an explanation~!

Fist wrote:He can send messages to Linden ("Don't trust me"), and likely lots of other things within the Arch.

Spoiler

He doesn´t actually say that at any point in the book... the closet thing he says to it is: "Be wary of me, remember that I´m dead

Is sending Linden back to our world really a "reverse summoning"? It's not like sending someone from the Land to our world, just sending her back to where she belonged. It's kind of like potential energy. They're both rubber bands stretched while in the Land, just waiting to snap back. I think this theory works whether you consider the land a parallel universe or a construct of TC's subconscious (although I have serious continuity problems with the latter theory, regardless of what SRD says). It reminds me of some old science fiction I read about time travel parodoxes and that you can never go back and meet yourself because the same mass can't exist in the same time, or something like that. It's still an interesting point though, especially about weakening the laws and summoning requirements. Keep in mind that Wild Magic has no Law, so even if TC tried to send Linden back, I don't think it necessarily broke any Laws. Elena broke the Law of Death using the Staff. I think a raver, or some other manifestation of Foul was there at the bonfire, which possessed the people and burned their hands, so Foul's ability appear in our world has already been established. That was the same conversion factor that I worked out. I felt Foul was much more decimated by TC, than by Kevin's RoD, so it should take several years for him to recuperate. Linden was a special girl. Breaking the Law of Death opens up all kinds of interesting possibilities about getting to know the legendary Lords firsthand in the LCTC. Wasn't there an appearance of the dead in Andelain, prior to the breaking of the Law of Death? At the end of the 2nd chronicles, TC sacrifices himself to shore up the arch of time, forever placing himself between Foul and the Land? But that begs the questions, is TC the arch, or is Wild Magic the key to the Arch, which is TC? Is there a difference in symantics or is it more fundamental? Of course, the Land is in trouble, otherwise there'd be no need for another set of books. Any power TC gains by "becoming" the arch, according to SRD tenets of the limits of power, shouldn't that also make him impotent because he has to obey the laws inherent with the Arch? Kind of like the Creator couldn't intervene directly in the Land because he would shatter the Arch. This is deliciously confusing. My first dissection post, and it's been years since I read TCTC. Please let me have it if I'm not furthering the discussion.

The answer is simple. She failed to die. She will now be aided in that task by her possessed son.