Satanism ...

[Metal-Demon]

I'm sure there must be people who worship Satan. But I once heard that most Satanists join for the orgies. I can certainly believe it.

Well ... if that's true, then those people aren't Satanists, as I understand it. I suppose that's like kinda saying a Buddhist becomes a Buddhist for the incense. I know it's absurd, but it somewhat circumvents and defeats the purpose behind the whole ideology of the religion.

[dennisrwood]

Demon: people join the Church all the time with no conception of what being devout is all about. i'm always finding Catholics who believe in the death penalty or abortion. the few Satanists i have come across seemed sincere enough, but it came across as more a rejection of Christianity. and one should have termed himself Wiccan anyway.

[wayfriend]

How come no one is talking about Freemasonry yet? -- The Masons being the best and most well-known examples of Satanists I can think of.

[Worm of Despite]

Don't tell my grandfather that! He was/is a Shriner!

[Reisheiruhime]

Ouch. Let's try this again. Henry VIII broke the Church of England away from recognizing Papal authority in the 16th century. This was done primarily because the pope wouldn't grant the king an annulment.

Wasn't he the one who had all his wives beheaded? Good method.

How could a Wiccan be confused for a Satanist? They're the ones who worship the Great Mother Goddess and/or the Horned One. (Mebbe thought Horned One meant Satan?)

I wonder what the people who associate with demons are classified as...

[Metal-Demon]

How come no one is talking about Freemasonry yet? -- The Masons being the best and most well-known examples of Satanists I can think of.

Really? How are they Satanists? Please explain.

[[Syl]]

I don't see how Satanists could be Wiccan. The two driving philosophies seem diametrically opposed. In one you have "Do what thou wilt, an it hurt none," and the other you have "Do what thou wilt." And, IIRC, Wiccans believe in the three-fold law, that whatever you do, good or bad, comes back to you three times (something having to do with 3 realms?). I don't see that working out in most Satanists' favor.

_________________________________________

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do, We do.

[Avatar]

You're certainly right about them being opposing philosophies, and about the rede, and the three fold law.

Interestingly enough, the rest of Crowley's "law" (which I'm not sure was entirely "satanistic" really) was: "And do what thou will shall be the whole of the law, and love is the law, and love under will".

Now I assume that he meant that love was subject to the will, but it could be interpreted differently. And both Crowley's "occultism" and Wicca have the concept of "will" firmly entrenched. But thats about the only similarity that I can think of off the top of my head.

As Dennis says, more than anything, satanism seems a rejection of christianity. In fact, it depends on christianity as much as the christians depend on the devil. Its the flip-side of christianity. Can't have one without the other.

Oh yeah, I guess that Wayfriend was being a touch sarcastic. Although I could be wrong.

--Avatar

[dennisrwood]

the two professed satanists i met were on opposite sides. the first believed in magic, but his philosophy seemed more wiccan that occultist. he should have researched, i believe he would have come around. he believed that there was wild magic to be found in nature. almost druidic in explanation. but i was uninformed at the time. the pentagrams and such that he displayed seemed for more effect than belief.

the second satanist i knew had his philosophy down. in fact i read up on the church of satan because of him. tis better to know what the opposition believes, eh? i know some fundamentalists who would believe my soul forfit for reading up on Levay and Crowley.

my grandfather was a mason. (father's side) we Catholics consider them to be opposed to us. i haven't a lot of knowledge of them though.

[Avatar]

...tis better to know what the opposition believes, eh?

My point of view as well.

--Avatar

[wayfriend]

How come no one is talking about Freemasonry yet? -- The Masons being the best and most well-known examples of Satanists I can think of.

Really? How are they Satanists? Please explain.

I wish I had some more reputable links handy. But with a grain of salt, this information should do, which I grepped from google. It's enough to prove that there's something to it.

Link: MASONRY PROVEN CONCLUSIVELY TO BE WORSHIP OF LUCIFER, SATAN

Link: Famous People Duped into Devil Worship (Masonry)

Theorhetically, the Masons are behind the whole American Revolution thing as well.
Link: American Masonic History: What Are America's True Roots?

They're the ones behind the whole pyramid on the dollar bill thing, too.
Link:
The NWO, Freemasonry, & Symbols On The Dollar Bill

[Avatar]

Chick Tracts anyone?

Hell, and I thought that you were joking.

Quite apart from anything else, people seem to be making a fudamental assumption that anything "Pagan"/"esoteric" must be evil and satanic, when in fact such is not the case. As long as christianity has been with us, there are gods and religions that are older still.

Much, if not most, paganism dates from before christianity even, let alone before the church decided that satan was the "great advarsary".

Nothing that I read in any of those links suggests any conclusive evidence for satanism. The most that can be said, going by the testimonies of ex-masons reached by a link from the second site you linked to, is that their teachings are not in complete accordance with christianity or the bible, which is understandable given that they accept non-christain members. But satanism? I don't think so.

There is a disturbing tendancy amongst some christians to brand anything that they percieve to be un-christian as automatically satanic. Nothing could be further from the truth.

--Avatar

[dennisrwood]

i also suspected that satan was a straw man anyways. i think man does enough evil without having to blame an external force.

[Avatar]

I agree with that too. It's one of the reasons that I've always liked the Judaic approach to evil, which states that evil is no incarnate thing, but arises from the petty desires of man instead.

Of course, IIRC, Islam has a refreshingly honest approach in saying that god (Allah) isresponsible for the bad things that happen, so you better be good.

--Avatar

[wayfriend]

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any serious links, as I said. It was an extemporaneous post. However, don't let the fact that the crazies run with it, or that the Masons deny it, sway you. There are some authoritative writings on this topic.

At the heart of the Masons is something like this: the Masons revere Satan as some sort of "Goad of God", and believe that all the good that humanity ever achieved is attributed to Satan's testing and tribulating. Therefore, Satan is actually necessary and even good for us, and therefore deserves respect and homage.

[Plissken]

Chick Tracts anyone?

Hell, and I thought that you were joking.

Quite apart from anything else, people seem to be making a fudamental assumption that anything "Pagan"/"esoteric" must be evil and satanic, when in fact such is not the case. As long as christianity has been with us, there are gods and religions that are older still.

Much, if not most, paganism dates from before christianity even, let alone before the church decided that satan was the "great advarsary".

Nothing that I read in any of those links suggests any conclusive evidence for satanism. The most that can be said, going by the testimonies of ex-masons reached by a link from the second site you linked to, is that their teachings are not in complete accordance with christianity or the bible, which is understandable given that they accept non-christain members. But satanism? I don't think so.

There is a disturbing tendancy amongst some christians to brand anything that they percieve to be un-christian as automatically satanic. Nothing could be further from the truth.

--Avatar

(Pet Peeve, but I have to point this out.) The word "pagan" actually means any religion differing from the cultural norm, and was originally applied to Christians in Ancient Rome.

[theDespiser]

and now it doesnt, as christianity is now the norm


and satanism is still christianity



and ive been to a mason meeting, and it is heavily ritualistic...it looked slightly occult to me, and i can see why people would think it was satanic...but the things they do and the causes they work for, i dont see as being satanic

[Iryssa]

Boy, I've been slacking...I need to start coming in here more often again. I'm just catching up on all this interesting stuff..

And of course, the corollary is just as true - I have to grit my teeth when I hear people talking about 'Christian books', 'Christian music', etc.

*sheepish giggle* sorry, Edge...henceforth, it shall be called "music with lyrics pertaining to Christianity, written and performed by Christians" Anyway, Edge, I agree completely with every single one of your posts here (I would quote them all, but this is already gonna be a long post)...well said

To me, the ultimate evil is cruelty and rejecting others' rights to live and be happy. The real Christian, in my book, is the one who behaves as Christ would have behaved in his place. And try as I might, the only people I really saw Jesus come down hard on were the Religious Fanatics of his own time...

totally agree, Cho...and people that fanatical about anything scare me *rueful grin* As far as the whole interracial marriage thing goes (though this is a little off-topic...or a lot)...woah...outdated, much? I mean, seriously...it's one of my pet peeves, when people call themselves Christians and then go about with that kind of racial discrimination...same thing with the gay debate. Just because you disagree with someone's lifestyle doesn't give you a right to throw stones.
P.S. C.S. Lewis is my hero *grin*


Wow...I could quote a lot and answer to a lot...but most of it boils down to this: People throw around words like "Satanist" and "Satanism" largely out of ignorance. I have a friend -- dear to me as a sister -- who dresses kinda goth-y...by "kinda goth-y" I mean that she doesn't go to the lengths I've seem some go to, but to the sleepy little Bible College town we lived in (and to the ultra-conservative people at the Bible College we went to) she seemed really hard-core. I could tell you stories about the grief some profs gave her...but I digress. The point is, she is one of the sweetest, most loveable Christians I know (and I know a lot), and also one of the most intelligently devout, and still she's gotten that from people. So, ya..basically, you're not alone...there are Christians (real ones) taking that crap, too. And it bugs me. A lot.

and satanism is still christianity

Okay...lost now...how?

[dennisrwood]

i think he means it's two sides of the same coin. without Christianity there could be no satanism. as the satanista are predicated on disbelieving in the selfsame Christianity.

off topic, but I get irritated when people ask me are Catholics Christians? who came first, the Protestants are a reaction against...

[theDespiser]

i think he means it's two sides of the same coin. without Christianity there could be no satanism. as the satanista are predicated on disbelieving in the selfsame Christianity.

off topic, but I get irritated when people ask me are Catholics Christians? who came first, the Protestants are a reaction against...

\


yeah, in order to believe in 'satan', you must first believe in 'god' and 'jesus'...if you believe in 'satan' but not god, then..its not 'satan'...its...i dunno, an evil being with qualities like those that are attributed to the devil...but...you cant be a satanist if you say you dont believe in god...you may not call yourself a 'christian' because you may not believe or follow the teachings of jesus christ, but you still believe there is a god and say you oppose him by following his enemy, the devil, so in essence, you still follow the christian faith, but choose the bad side, not the good side...


to me, satan was just a creation of the church to keep everybody in line...theres no real 'proof' of the devil before christianity came into being, but there has always been enemies of a certain cultures god/gods...


of course, theres no proof of a "god" either