Kevin's Watch

I once brought up in another thread that I do not think that Foul is very powerful(supernaturally speaking)if not armed with say The Illearth Stone,or given several thousand years to develop an overly complicated scheme I believe his ass is grass.

I thought that Donaldson said somewhere that Foul had the power to defeat TC but that he was obsessed with the Illearth Stone - something along those lines. I searched the GI, but nothing came up.

Think about SRDs descriptions of Foul in TPTP and WGW. He describes an entity of astounding "puissance".

there seems to be a lot of objects of power littering the Land, no? staff of law, orcrest, illearth stone, white gold. does anyone have a handy list compering the power objects to that of middle earth?

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I once brought up in another thread that I do not think that Foul is very powerful(supernaturally speaking)if not armed with say The Illearth Stone,or given several thousand years to develope an overly complicated scheme I believe his ass is grass.

He kicked Kevin's arse without any of those things.

I guess he'd been scheming, but it wasn't that complicated.

Foul's Things To Do List:
"Fool Kevin"
"Kill his friends"
"WAR!!!"

The Somberlain wrote:
He kicked Kevin's arse without any of those things.

I guess he'd been scheming, but it wasn't that complicated.

Foul's Things To Do List:
"Fool Kevin"
"Kill his friends"
"WAR!!!"

Sorry, I'm a little off topic here...

But, yes, I think it was a little more complicated than that. Foul had to find a way to make Kevin lose hope. It's hard to make a Lord lose hope, as i've seen. Well, Foul had to make Kevin so wasted with helplessness that Kevin would do anything (ANYTHING) to try and kill Foul--which is what Foul always wants, to turn your own will against you. But it sure as hell wasn't simply thought out. "Fooling Kevin" could have taken a near lifetime to do. It's not all cut and dry.

I guess the way they explain it in the book made it seem a little more simpler than it really was.

But that's just my two cents...

And, of course, the only thing that could have killed (or reduced) Foul was the RoD.

Kevin was nothing compared to Foul.

Although I understand SRDs dislike of prequels, I sure wish he'd write some.

Satan is not actually evil, he just tempts Man to evil. And evil that is done by his acts are due to Man's Choices. (Though I am an atheist, I'm merely talking on a theoretical basis here)

Foul, we don't know all his powers - but we know he has been beaten not once, but twice. Perhaps three, if you count his defeat at Kevin's hand.

Sauron, he is merely an eye. The only thing I think he could best the others at is a staring match.

Revan wrote:Satan is not actually evil, he just tempts Man to evil. And evil that is done by his acts are due to Man's Choices. (Though I am an atheist, I'm merely talking on a theoretical basis here)

Seeing as you're an atheist, I'm not really surprised at your ignorance about what the Bible says about Satan and evil. Still, this is the Sci/Fi-Fantasy forum, not the Close, so don't post this stuff here, ok?

Revan wrote:Sauron, he is merely an eye. The only thing I think he could best the others at is a staring match.

Interesting concept...

so who would win in a staring match between Sauron, Lord Foul and Satan?

sgtnull wrote:so who would win in a staring match between Sauron, Lord Foul and Satan?

I think that has already been answered.

I must once again correct the common misconception that Sauron was an eye at the time of the War of the Ring. In fact he had a real humanoid body. You can picture him as a Vain-colored Giant who wears black armor to battle, and has eyes much like Lord Foul's (except more fiery) and touch like that of the Demondim. There was less power difference between Sauron and Morgoth than one would think (Sauron was one powerful Maia) and in fact Sauron at his most powerful with his Ring was stronger than Morgoth at the end of the First Age, because Morgoth had wasted much of his being corrupting the world. And Sauron was the smart one.

Anyway, what Sauron really fell to was the classic "one small, virtually inaccessible weak spot". Since it is exceesingly unlikely that his competitors would get a chance to throw the One Ring to a volcano (and they would claim it for themselves anyway), I think this weak spot can be ignored from our calculations.

Lord Foul was beaten by himself in the Second Chronicles, and earlier by power near the world-destroying scale. The Ritual of Desecration and unleashed wild magic might be comparable to the War of Wrath that sunk Beleriand, but these two appeared far more intense in devastation per second than the much longer War of Wrath. And Lord Foul himself was responsible for half of the Ritual, which gives an idea of his power.

Satan is out to be squashed like a bug by a supposedly-omnipotent being who is obviously just toying with him. That doesn't sound so impressive, considering that Lord Foul is supposed to have a much better chance against the Creator who we may remember also created a world (with "help" from Lord Foul). And, I've been maintaining that Lord Foul doesn't only correspond to Satan. I think Foul is also eerily reminescent of the darker side of the Christian God.

1. Lord Foul
2. Sauron
3. Satan

Nerdanel wrote:I must once again correct the common misconception that Sauron was an eye at the time of the War of the Ring. In fact he had a real humanoid body. You can picture him as a Vain-colored Giant who wears black armor to battle, and has eyes much like Lord Foul's (except more fiery) and touch like that of the Demondim.

I was under the impression that Sauron had lost his material form in the fall of Numenor. IIRC, the continued existence of the Ring was all that held him together.

He did lose his material form then (the fair one, to be exact - he was a shapeshifter), but he rebuilt himself in the Dark Lord form before he got killed in the Last Alliance. After that he spent the better part of the Third Age rebuilding himself yet again (to the somewhat-damaged Dark Lord form). It took him a lot more time as he was without his Ring this time and his spirit got weaker with each resurrection. (He needed to be material to interact properly with the world and rule it.)

Dear God!!!

We actually have an official opinion on the matter!

In the Gradual Interview was wrote:Another Obvious Geek.: I see Gandalf in the role of the Old Man who both Covenant and Linden encounter in our world so I doubt Covenant could beat him up. The real question is, could Lord Foul lay the smack down on Sauron; they are both demigods.

That would be a celebrity death match I would like to see.
_______________________

But they have such different methologies. Especially now. I like to think that Lord Foul would turn Sauron inside-out. <grin>

(03/22/2006)

Wayfriend wrote:Dear God!!!

We actually have an official opinion on the matter!

In the Gradual Interview was wrote:Another Obvious Geek.: I see Gandalf in the role of the Old Man who both Covenant and Linden encounter in our world so I doubt Covenant could beat him up. The real question is, could Lord Foul lay the smack down on Sauron; they are both demigods.

That would be a celebrity death match I would like to see.
_______________________

But they have such different methologies. Especially now. I like to think that Lord Foul would turn Sauron inside-out. <grin>

(03/22/2006)

Come on... fess up, who asked?

As depicted in Neil Gaiman's Sandman, and later Mike Carey's Lucifer series from Vertigo (an imprint of DC Comics), Satan aka Lucifer Morningstar, the Lightbringer, would easily hand Lord Foul and Sauron their asses. He is second only to Yahweh himself in power, plus he is the supreme master of strategy and planning.

But seeing as how Lucifer is a mythological being (or perhaps real? Not my intention to start a theological debate!) and in the public domain, there are countless interpretations of his personality, degree of evilness, and power level. So depending on which interpretation you refer to, he could either win or lose this particular celebrity death match.

JNB

Nerdanel wrote:And Lord Foul himself was responsible for half of the Ritual, which gives an idea of his power.

A good point, easily forgotten or overlooked.

The Darkest Lord of them all would summon his resources and destroy them all...if he can get his soul back from Satan, that is.

That's right, I am speaking of....




Dick Cheney.