Lost--Season 6 - Spoilers Abound!!!

[[Syl]]

Considering the Napoleon reference, I think the MiB's identity is now clear. He's Zod.

[Orlion]

Considering the Napoleon reference, I think the MiB's identity is now clear. He's Zod.

Yeah, I think that could apply to MiB, but in this episode, I think that it was mainly aimed at Ben Linus.

So, also in the other universe, we know there is a Dharma Initiative that is located on an island. Whether or not this is THE island remains to be seen.

[Zarathustra]

Damn good episode. Actually, the first really good episode this season. I don't care how many questions they answer as long as they keep giving us character moments like this one. (I have a feeling the answers are going to be disappointing, anyway. For instance, I think the entire answer to "Why does Richard not age?" has been given last night: a "gift" from Jacob. That's it. But we suspected as much anyway.)

Ben's character arc this episode was a nice counterpoint to Sayid's. Instead of going to the "dark side," Ben nearly pulled off redemption. I fully expected Ben to sacrifice Alex's career for his own in the flash sideways. I fully expected him to kill Ilana and go with Flocke. But the twist was not only surprising, it was also gut-wreching. I actually felt sorry for Ben--something I never expected to feel.

Jack and Richard had a nice moment, too. Jack has completely committed now. He's exactly where Locke was. When he closed his eyes and turned his head up while the fuse was burning, I thought of Locke doing the same thing in Walkabout while it was raining on the beach. A look of peace and purpose.

It was also cool seeing Richard doubt himself, his purpose, and Jacob. And I guess we know which chains Flocke was talking about now.

[Orlion]

Damn good episode. Actually, the first really good episode this season. I don't care how many questions they answer as long as they keep giving us character moments like this one. (I have a feeling the answers are going to be disappointing, anyway. For instance, I think the entire answer to "Why does Richard not age?" has been given last night: a "gift" from Jacob. That's it. But we suspected as much anyway.)

Ben's character arc this episode was a nice counterpoint to Sayid's. Instead of going to the "dark side," Ben nearly pulled off redemption. I fully expected Ben to sacrifice Alex's career for his own in the flash sideways. I fully expected him to kill Ilana and go with Flocke. But the twist was not only surprising, it was also gut-wreching. I actually felt sorry for Ben--something I never expected to feel.

Jack and Richard had a nice moment, too. Jack has completely committed now. He's exactly where Locke was. When he closed his eyes and turned his head up while the fuse was burning, I thought of Locke doing the same thing in Walkabout while it was raining on the beach. A look of peace and purpose.

It was also cool seeing Richard doubt himself, his purpose, and Jacob. And I guess we know which chains Flocke was talking about now.

It's because Jacob "touched" him. As a result, that could explain why Sayid didn't die...completely... he was also touched by Jacob. Of course, then we'd have to ask about Locke....could be that it's only effective on the island? (except his touch revived Locke...*sigh*)

Anyone else noticing the resemblance to King's The Stand ?

[sindatur]

Damn good episode. Actually, the first really good episode this season. I don't care how many questions they answer as long as they keep giving us character moments like this one. (I have a feeling the answers are going to be disappointing, anyway. For instance, I think the entire answer to "Why does Richard not age?" has been given last night: a "gift" from Jacob. That's it. But we suspected as much anyway.)

Ben's character arc this episode was a nice counterpoint to Sayid's. Instead of going to the "dark side," Ben nearly pulled off redemption. I fully expected Ben to sacrifice Alex's career for his own in the flash sideways. I fully expected him to kill Ilana and go with Flocke. But the twist was not only surprising, it was also gut-wreching. I actually felt sorry for Ben--something I never expected to feel.

Jack and Richard had a nice moment, too. Jack has completely committed now. He's exactly where Locke was. When he closed his eyes and turned his head up while the fuse was burning, I thought of Locke doing the same thing in Walkabout while it was raining on the beach. A look of peace and purpose.

It was also cool seeing Richard doubt himself, his purpose, and Jacob. And I guess we know which chains Flocke was talking about now.

It's because Jacob "touched" him. As a result, that could explain why Sayid didn't die...completely... he was also touched by Jacob. Of course, then we'd have to ask about Locke....could be that it's only effective on the island? (except his touch revived Locke...*sigh*)

Anyone else noticing the resemblance to King's The Stand ?

Ah...but, Richard also explained that. Richard can be killed (And presumably the rest of the touched) just not by Smokey directly, and he can't die of natural causes or take his own life. If Jack had walked away, then Richard probably would've blown up, Jack staying there, was Jack commiting suicide, tehrefore the "island" intervened. So, is that what Smokey's examination was all about, determining if certain individuals were ones he wasn't allowed to kill?

It now seems Locke wouldn't have succeeded in hanging himself (Ben intervened), but, it was OK for Ben to kill him, because Ben wasn't bound from killing him by the "rules". Thinking back, Michael tried to kill himself, and Tom Friendly told him the island wouldn't allow it.

[Cagliostro]

Anyone else noticing the resemblance to King's The Stand ?

yes.

Jack and Richard had a nice moment, too. Jack has completely committed now. He's exactly where Locke was. When he closed his eyes and turned his head up while the fuse was burning, I thought of Locke doing the same thing in Walkabout while it was raining on the beach. A look of peace and purpose.

VERY good point.

And they sure do a good job at making you feel sorry for that manipulative, murdering bastard Ben, don't they?

[Orlion]

Anyone else noticing the resemblance to King's The Stand ?

yes.

Damn, and I thought I came up with that all by myself

[wayfriend]

The chains on the ship were clearly the chains Locke-prime referred to when speaking to Richard in the earlier episode. As opposed to any metaphoric chains from being associated with Jacob. Richard apparently arrived as a slave or prisoner on that ship. The bargain he made with Jacob is fairly easy to guess. But still, THERE'S a flashback I'd like to see.

Also noticed how Richard's pain and anguish at having his work for Jacob ultimately end up unfulfilling does rather well to make Ben's case for why he killed Jacob more convincing.

[Zarathustra]

Also noticed how Richard's pain and anguish at having his work for Jacob ultimately end up unfulfilling does rather well to make Ben's case for why he killed Jacob more convincing.

Good point. It does add to the sympathy factor, and makes us question Jacob. I really like how the writers are making Jacob/MIB a little ambiguous.

I also like how people I've sympathized with (like Sayid) are shown to be bastards, and I'm left wondering . . what was it I liked about this character, again? How did I ever get to the place where a torturer was likable? I don't believe we've ever seen Sayid change, though he did show a little bit of regret at times. And yet, he always seemed ready to jump back into his previous lifestyle of murder and torture. Even murdering a child. Clearly, Sayid has been a bad guy all along, but for some reason I overlooked it. That's some pretty good writing.

[ItisWritten]

I don't know about King's The Stand, but I'm also seeing Donaldson in this too, and not just the Foul inferences.

What was the loophole? How do you kill an immortal? And once one has been killed in a particular way, does that rule also apply to the other? This could go a long way to explaining Jacob's embracing of his death at Ben's hand. I can't help but think of Hile Troy.

I hesitate to go on with this, since it could be a spoiler on the actual end. But I could also be wrong.

[I'm Murrin]

Good episode.

Locke continues to tempt people with the one thing they desire most. For Ben it is his power, but murdering Jacob seems to have been a turning point for his character - he's accepted that it wasn't Jacob but himself that was responsible for Alex's death, and it seems that his guilt is greater than his greed at this point.

Does Michael's inability to commit suicide in season 4 (guns jamming and so forth) have to do with him being a candidate, or with him simply being needed to destroy the boat?

Jack has discovered a sense of purpose thanks to Jacob, and he worked out what it was all about without having to be told, so Jacob was right about allowing him to sit and look out at the ocean. He needed to work out for himself what it meant. The man of science, man of faith duality of Jack at play again.

Jack finding and demonstrating this faith to Richard also provides a means through which Richard might discover his own sense of purpose again - Jacob still has a plan, and it is still in motion.


Ben's blackmail attempt a deliberate mirror of the death of his daughter in the original timeline: only in this one, he is able to have a sense of perspective, rather than being so scared of losing his power that he has to refuse them. Not having the power in the first place is what made the difference, I think.


Ben bringing gas cannisters to his father as a means of aiding his health, versus Ben using a gas grenade to murder him. The island talked about is the island we know - the timelines only diverged in 1977, after all, when Ben and his father were on the island (and probably shipped off with the rest of the women and children before the Incident occured).


And the final scenes - a repeated image in the series as a whole, people are setting up their tents and a group who have been seperated walk in from the same part of the beach they always do, from behind the same bush, to be greeted by hugs and smiles.


And I'm kinda happy Miles found his payoff, heh.

[danlo]

Finally!!! The show is back on track! This ep made up for the last 3. And seeing LOST for the first time on HD flatscreen was amazing!

[Cagliostro]

Hell, I had that joy a couple weeks ago myself. I'm so happy to have another new HD flatscreen buddy. Though mine was a 27" Samsung also from Costco. Pity the sound truly sucks. I'll finally have to hook up my stereo and speakers, neighbors be damned.

[danlo]

32 inch Vizio-and the sound makes my Jensen towers tremble with fear!!!

[lucimay]

i know what i initially liked about sayid...his like...doe-eyes and semi-hunkiness. by the time illanna kicked him in the face i'd got over that! hadn't felt much sympathy for him since. actually, i think
it was that whole scene with shannon's death. that was just soooo over the top to me. i just didn't believe him.

arg. blathering again.

anyway i haven't seen this weeks yet, sounds like a good one and i'm eager to see it tonight after raid.

[Kil Tyme]

This is one ep I am really looking forward to watching the "enhanced version" next week; there is alot to catch on a second viewing, I think. I too was moved by Ben's "he's the only one who'll take me" speach/scene. Excellent. So, Jack is an "immortal" now, too. I still wonder if he is committed. I don't see Jack as becoming the island defender, tho; he is still too high strung and flippin angry. I only see Hugo as a Jacob replacment; perhaps even Niles, but he wasn't a "chosen" one.

[sindatur]

This is one ep I am really looking forward to watching the "enhanced version" next week; there is alot to catch on a second viewing, I think. I too was moved by Ben's "he's the only one who'll take me" speach/scene. Excellent. So, Jack is an "immortal" now, too. I still wonder if he is committed. I don't see Jack as becoming the island defender, tho; he is still too high strung and flippin angry. I only see Hugo as a Jacob replacment; perhaps even Niles, but he wasn't a "chosen" one.

I'm going with Ben, actually, poerfect symmetry since he is the one who killed Jacob, and why it makes sense that he was forgiven by Ilana

[Kil Tyme]

I thought about Ben, too, but as far as we know Jacob never touched Ben, so I don't think he was ever considered a candidate. I don't think Jacob would doom/alter the destinys of a bunch of people just to pick one who wasn't an initial candidate. Jacob (or the writers) has other plans for Ben, perhaps to end up killing Flock or Sayid, which would still allow for some sort of symmetry. Ben was "altered" like Sayid and Claire, so there is still something askew in him.

[wayfriend]

I think it will be Ben as well, at least if his repentence story arc continues as it has begun. But I'm not confident about it.

Ben's the only character whose story arc includes finding a recognition-worthy purpose for his ambitions. What Jack needs is faith, and I think he'll get that by helping whatever unfolds unfold. I'm not really sure what Hurley needs, perhaps he needs more rectitude - I can see the weight of a critical choice falling on his shoulders before the end.

I'm somewhat confused as to who are the "six candidates".

Are they Jack, Hurley, Sawyer, Kate, Kwan (one of them), and Ben (deceased) ? Or was Sayid one ?

Are they the same as the Oceanic Six? If so, then one is assuredly Sun, and one is assuredly Aaron.

[I'm Murrin]

Hmm. Ilana knows Locke is dead, so that means she knows there's a candidate alive that wasn't one of the six "numbers". Interesting.