A Game of Thrones

[Damelon]

A couple of thoughts:

I'd hate to see Arya exchange Cersei for Dani on her list. After her last talk with the Hound, when he asked her if she wanted to be like him, I'd like to think that that was enough for her to give up the list.

A wildcard out there is Bronn. Where is he and what is he up to?

[Avatar]

I was expecting this to mean the Wildfire had caught light and the whole city was about to go up... but it didn't happen.

Same. I wonder if a scene was cut.

Have seen people suggesting that the blooms of wildfire mean Cersei was planning on burning the place herself if necessary.

--A

[I'm Murrin]

The special effects are the last things completed on these productions, and it'd be weird if they still asked for the green fire to be included after changing their minds about something like that.

[Cagliostro]

Maybe it was just to suggest that there were deposits of wildfire all around the city. That makes sense to me.

[wayfriend]

That's how I took it.

-----

I think Cersei is Not Quite Dead.

Spoiler

Even if you could believe that the showrunners would throw away the whole Maggy the Frog prophecy for the sake of sliding into an easy ending, I don't think GRRM would ever consent to something which so violates his integrity as an author. Possibly this is a throw away ending allowing GRRM to rewrite a different ending for the books. But I think it's more likely we will see Cersei climbing out of some fake styrofoam rubble. Yes, I realize I am irrationally hoping for a better ending than what we got.

[DoctorGamgee]

Ah, Wayfriend. I feel your pain. But one of the core tenets of GRRM is that prophecy is often misinterpreted or just wrong. Stannis anyone? Arya killed the NK but was not reborn amid smoke and salt. But Dany did bring dragons from stone. But she didn't wield a flaming sword (unless you count Drogon). Some are making the somewhat stretched claim that the unborn child was the Valonqor that was her ultimate undoing. Poppycock. Wrapped his hands? Not at all. Sorry.

GRRM doesn't abide by the predictable. That's what I like about him.

[Orlion]

The last episode is just going to be everyone going out for ice cream.

[DoctorGamgee]

Yeah, I wasn't all that thrilled with it.

Of course, Danerys' father was completely mad and cruel. And her brother (the one the Dothraki "crowned") was cut from the same cloth. Seem to recall it ran in the family too, so maybe she did just lose it. (As pointed out above, she already got a taste for burning people...)

That said, still out of character for her.

I hear a lot of people say this, and I feel like I'm missing something. This is the same queen who was constantly advised not to do something rash by her advisors, isn't it? She was far more "Shoot first and ask questions later" than Jorah, Tyrion, Varys or Missandei, who always were more cautious.

And even back at Winterfell, both she and her advisors didn't feel supported by the people. Hence her anger at Jon, who was one of them. She has been ever isolated. And we watch as she tries to bond with Sansa, but when Sansa asks her the question of "what about the North?" she pulls away. Had she not been interrupted, there is no way of knowing where that would have lead. But her pulling into herself as if ready to lash out shows this side of her.

Not that she is all evli. But she is complex and impulsive. A mix of Breaker of Chains and Blood and Fire. A true Targaryen.

The rest was pretty meh. Many meaningful looks from Jon, Arya surviving more things being dropped on her than Wile E Coyote, (assume she will try for Daenerys now), etc.

Also noted the unlimited dragon fire. (And I see fire is now exploding stone...was more like a death ray than a blast of flame.)

Maybe Martin will one day finish the series, somehow avoid being influenced by the series, and we can see what was really supposed to happen.

Last episode obviously Jon vs Danerys...Question is whose side will Tyrion end up on?

--A

Yeah, her strafing run made a liar out of a man raised by Ned Stark. The Lannisters had laid down their weapons on Jon's word. But now he seems dishonest, and cowardly. THAT will be an interesting scene, as Dany tries to avoid answering to Jon for her reasoning.

[Zarathustra]

An argument could be made that Cersei was killed by her little brother, after all, since Jaime is the one who led her to that particular place where she was trapped and died. The prophesy could still be said to have been fulfilled, albeit in a roundabout way. But that's usually the way with prophesies.

[wayfriend]

More than 300,000 people want 'Game of Thrones' final season remade

[aTOMiC]

More than 300,000 people want 'Game of Thrones' final season remade

Wow. That's so stupid I can't evaluate it. The math just doesn't compute levels of idiocy this high.

But to each his own I guess.

[Sorus]

I was expecting this to mean the Wildfire had caught light and the whole city was about to go up... but it didn't happen.

Same. I wonder if a scene was cut.

Have seen people suggesting that the blooms of wildfire mean Cersei was planning on burning the place herself if necessary.

--A

That was my theory, but it just looked... random. I guess it could have been left over from Aerys, but you'd think it would have been mentioned somehow.

Prophecy as a plot device has annoyed me since BSG. Doesn't fit? Just scrap it; nobody will notice. Oh yes, we will notice.

[Skyweir]

Yeah, I wasn't all that thrilled with it.

Of course, Danerys' father was completely mad and cruel. And her brother (the one the Dothraki "crowned") was cut from the same cloth. Seem to recall it ran in the family too, so maybe she did just lose it. (As pointed out above, she already got a taste for burning people...)

That said, still out of character for her.

I hear a lot of people say this, and I feel like I'm missing something. This is the same queen who was constantly advised not to do something rash by her advisors, isn't it? She was far more "Shoot first and ask questions later" than Jorah, Tyrion, Varys or Missandei, who always were more cautious.

And even back at Winterfell, both she and her advisors didn't feel supported by the people. Hence her anger at Jon, who was one of them. She has been ever isolated. And we watch as she tries to bond with Sansa, but when Sansa asks her the question of "what about the North?" she pulls away. Had she not been interrupted, there is no way of knowing where that would have lead. But her pulling into herself as if ready to lash out shows this side of her.

Not that she is all evli. But she is complex and impulsive. A mix of Breaker of Chains and Blood and Fire. A true Targaryen.

The rest was pretty meh. Many meaningful looks from Jon, Arya surviving more things being dropped on her than Wile E Coyote, (assume she will try for Daenerys now), etc.

Also noted the unlimited dragon fire. (And I see fire is now exploding stone...was more like a death ray than a blast of flame.)

Maybe Martin will one day finish the series, somehow avoid being influenced by the series, and we can see what was really supposed to happen.

Last episode obviously Jon vs Danerys...Question is whose side will Tyrion end up on?

--A

Yeah, her strafing run made a liar out of a man raised by Ned Stark. The Lannisters had laid down their weapons on Jon's word. But now he seems dishonest, and cowardly. THAT will be an interesting scene, as Dany tries to avoid answering to Jon for her reasoning.

Totally agree that this isnt out of character at all ... shes been building to this for some time now.

Factoring in Jons bombshell which has shattered her belief she IS the rightful ruler .. that she was fated to sit on the iron throne .. that belief is no longer credible for her ... she knows it.

All her losses, ALL shes been through .. endured .. escalated with Cersis execution of Messande. It was the straw that broke her. But the cracks have been showing for quite some time now.

When the bell rang .. she could have stopped but in that moment she shed a tear .. and it all came crashing .. She IS the mother of dragons .. and she will show them what that means.

Im not sure how she will recover from here .. how she will reinstate herself as glorious leader.

I enjoyed the episode AND the strafing dragon fire. Now she is Queen of the Ashes. But Arya rode away on a pale horse .. and that was symbolic of her meting out death.

The hound saved Arya by convincing her to leave .. it was a touching moment when she called him by his actual name.

[Cagliostro]

More than 300,000 people want 'Game of Thrones' final season remade

Wow. That's so stupid I can't evaluate it. The math just doesn't compute levels of idiocy this high.

But to each his own I guess.

Wow, yes, seriously. This, my friends, is yet another dumb side of the internet. "I don't like something, so I want to fill out an petition to change it." Do these things ever work? I guess they raise awareness occasionally, but I suspect most of them are just pissing in the wind. Because MF are gonna do what MF are gonna do. And anyway, the writers of a show shouldn't be beholden to what their fans think. We see that occasionally, and it usually sucks. If they have a vision, for better or worse, they should be allowed to follow through. And if it sucks, and someone wants to rewrite it later, have at it.

Okay, I looked it up and yes, no surprise, a strong majority never change anything. But it does make people stupidly feel like they did something, and more often then not, that's all they do. And it's been given a name: slacktivism. Anyway, thought I'd pass on that info nugget.

[wayfriend]

as of Friday morning, more than 800,000 people have signed an online petition to remake the entirety of season eight.

Yeah ... obviously a petition is not going to be effective. I just find this interesting as it shows how many people are hating the final season. And why they hate it.

In no particular order, here is an abridged list of plot points that fans have taken issue with this season:

• Not being able to see the Battle of Winterfell clearly because it was so dark
• Arya killing the Night King instead of Jon
• The Night King's relatively easy death
• Sansa's conversation with The Hound, which attributed her strong character to the rape and torture she endured
• Rhaegal's easy death
• Missandei dying in chains
• Jon's treatment of Ghost
• The basic existence of Euron Greyjoy
• Jaime's reversal of his redemption arc and lackluster death by Cersei's side
• Daenerys' swift pivot to Mad Queen and subsequent burning of Kings Landing

[Zarathustra]

In no particular order, here is an abridged list of plot points that fans have taken issue with this season:

• Not being able to see the Battle of Winterfell clearly because it was so dark
• Arya killing the Night King instead of Jon
• The Night King's relatively easy death
• Sansa's conversation with The Hound, which attributed her strong character to the rape and torture she endured
• Rhaegal's easy death
• Missandei dying in chains
• Jon's treatment of Ghost
• The basic existence of Euron Greyjoy
• Jaime's reversal of his redemption arc and lackluster death by Cersei's side
• Daenerys' swift pivot to Mad Queen and subsequent burning of Kings Landing

[/quote]

Some of those are legitimate complaints about execution and pacing, others seem more like the viewers wanting happy endings in a series where we have no right to expect happy endings (my own desire to have seen Jon/Dany reconciliation included).

The Night King died too easily, quickly. Ditto Rhaegal, Cersei, Jaime. Dany did pivot too quickly. (Despite what others have said above, killing 1000s of innocents has NEVER been part of her character.)

But Jaime was never being "redeemed." He wasn't on a redemption arc. He did two good things in his entire life: tried to stop Brienne from getting raped, and rescued her from the bear pit. He was certainly put in his place, and had his arrogance checked by a string of humiliations, but setbacks aren't redemption.

Missandei dying in chains is a big "meh." Suck it up, snowflakes. Westeros is a brutal world where kids get tossed out of windows in the very first episode. What did you expect? As for Sansa owning her rape/torture as character-building, it was Nietzsche who said that "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger." Are we too politically correct in today's Me Too era to accept that women can rise above rape? Should Neitzsche have said instead, "what doesn't kill me makes me stronger . . . unless I'm a woman suffering sexual violence, then I'm nothing more than perpetual a victim"?? Theon had his dick cut off, for chrissake, and this was apparently part of his "redemption" arc. Why is sexual violence and torture against men character-building, but not women? God, I hate political correctness.

Ghost. Sigh. The fate of a continent hangs in the balance, but people can't get over the treatment of a CGI dog. First World problems, I suppose.

[Skyweir]

Yeah Im with Cags and Z .. yes it could have been paced way better but it is what it is.

I read recently that the show was given as much time as they need .. as many seasons as they want .. cos successful right? But the writers had committed to shooting it in entire in 173 hours or some shit.

Strikes me as the reason we have been arguably raced through the last season.

A shame to be sure but .. I agree there are issues but I still love it and cant wait till tomorrow.

No fan ever wants there stories to end.

[I'm Murrin]

Predictions of the finale:

Daenerys dies.
The dragon dies.
Jon either dies or he fucks off north of the wall to avoid being king.
With the capital destroyed, the Seven Kingdoms goes back to independent states, with the rulers being Sansa Stark (North), Robin Arryn (Vale), Edmure Tully (Riverlands), Gendry Baratheon (Stormlands), Yara Greyjoy (Iron Islands), Bronn of the Blackwater (Highgarden), whoeverthefuckaren'ttheyalldeadnow? (Dorne), and maybe Tyrion Lannister (Westerlands).
I say maybe for Tyrion because I think it's pretty even odds on him dying and not becoming the Lord of Casterly Rock.

And none of the above will be done in a way that pays off long term character arcs or fulfills prophecies.

[Sorus]

That all sounds pretty plausible, not to mention ominous for the future of the realm.

At this point, I'm mainly hoping the eventual book PoVs give more context to the decisions made this season. I realize it isn't going to sync up perfectly, but hopefully there will be some answers.

[lucimay]

okey dokey! all done!

just waiting for you all to log on and weigh in!