Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:12 pm**

Another thing I am wondering. Ben stabs Jacob, Jacob dies. Said stabs BLocke, nothing happens.

Richard tries to stab Jacob, Jacob doesn't let him, I assume because he would be hurt or die, else why not let it happen and laugh, like BLocke did?

Why would these two other-wise balanced dudes be unequal in this respect?

The possible answer I see is that it's connected to MIB losing his humanity and his body ... perhaps implying that Jacob was human and mortal where MIB is not.

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:17 pm**

wayfriend wrote:Another thing I am wondering. Ben stabs Jacob, Jacob dies. Said stabs BLocke, nothing happens.

Richard tries to stab Jacob, Jacob doesn't let him, I assume because he would be hurt or die, else why not let it happen and laugh, like BLocke did?

Why would these two other-wise balanced dudes be unequal in this respect?

The possible answer I see is that it's connected to MIB losing his humanity and his body ... perhaps implying that Jacob was human and mortal where MIB is not.

I'm of two minds, that's one possibility, and the other possibility is who has "Claimed" them? Since Sayid is more bad then good, could he kill Jacob, but not Smokey? Since Hurley is more Good than Bad, could he kill Smokey, but, not Jacob? They've both used or had apply to them, the line "Don't let him get a word out, he can be very convincing"

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:46 pm**

wayfriend wrote:Another thing I am wondering. Ben stabs Jacob, Jacob dies. Said stabs BLocke, nothing happens.

Richard tries to stab Jacob, Jacob doesn't let him, I assume because he would be hurt or die, else why not let it happen and laugh, like BLocke did?

Why would these two other-wise balanced dudes be unequal in this respect?

The possible answer I see is that it's connected to MIB losing his humanity and his body ... perhaps implying that Jacob was human and mortal where MIB is not.

I think Jacob has some powers. Definitely being able to live forever (his job imbues him with that, as well as appearing to people, even when he's dead). I reckon he won't get to rest until a new protector takes his helm.

But he's also mortal, as he defended himself (which, yeah, is unlike MiB). MiB truly is some kind of supernatural power/demon/beast (though it seems he was human).

Jacob apparently can defend himself outside of the statue, but he seemed to have no power within it (he told Ben as much--that it'd be his choice to stab him or not). He also said people can only come in there if he invites them--or find a way, like the Locke Monster did by tricking/using Alpert.

Thus the loophole! Now--to find out why the statue is the loophole...

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:35 pm**

Murrin wrote:He revealed his identity to Richard two hundred years earlier, when he sent him to kill Jacob. He's not really been seen to hide it that much when he didn't need to ("you talk to me as if I were your brother", for example).

Richard knows because he's Jacob's 'right hand' man. There's no purpose in keeping the doorman ignorant of who shouldn't be invited in. But the Others? Dogen and the interpreter seemed to realize that smokie was Jacob's nemesis, but how much did they know about BLocke?

The example of Ekko isn't the same. Even if that was a reveal (and how much did Ekko guess?), it seems plain that Ekko wasn't intended to live and tell anyone else. Sawyer, on the other hand, is very likely to tell Kate, among others.

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:05 pm**

That doesn't really work as an explanation - our friend told Richard who he was before Richard even met Jacob.

Posted: **Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:17 am**

Murrin wrote:That doesn't really work as an explanation - our friend told Richard who he was before Richard even met Jacob.

Did he? Richard thought the monster had taken his wife. BLocke told him if he wanted to see his wife he had to kill Jacob, saying that Jacob was the devil/monster, never admitting that he was the monster.

I'm not totally believing my own theories, but there is logic to what I'm saying. But there are too many yeah-buts to come to any conclusions, and I'm not.

Posted: **Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:42 pm**

Zarathustra wrote:Back to ghosts vs Smokie . . . this is an important mystery, integral to the show. It holds the key to the plot, because it shows where characters were simply manipulated by MIB, or dealing with their own past and personal demons.

There does seem to be some logic to it, as Murrin noted, with Smokie only taking the form of dead bodies on the island itself. That seems to have been the importance of the entire season 4/season 5 loop: to get Locke's body back on the island so MIB could impersonate the one person who could talk Ben into killing Jacob . . . Ben's replacement, the one he was jealous enough to kill, the one who could be healed, who could talk to Jacob, who made him irrelevant. Ben's hatred, his sacrifice (daughter), and ultimately his guilt for killing Locke put him in the precarious state where he was the only one ideally suited to kill Jacob. And that's why Locke had to die, and his body be brought back, so MIB could take his form and complete his goal.

And that's why the Others burned their dead. That's an important clue.

However, there are anomalies. If the Others knew MIB could impersonate their dead, why didn't Ben immediatel suspect Flocke? How did MIB impersonate Isabella? (In fact, how was it possible for Smokie to be heard outside the boat while Isabella was inside???) Does Hurley see dead people, or Smokie? Can Smokie appear off-island (because Jack and Hurley see their dead off-island)?

I think Richard's wife was indeed a ghost, but it doesn't explain how MIB impersonated her. Also, there are two other things that seem anomalies from previous seasons:
1. Dave - Hurley's imaginary friend. Did he ever truly exist? It sure seems like the MIB was using that form to manipulate Hurley to kill himself. Or was this all in Hurley's mind after all?
2. Kate's horse - I'm guessing it didn't die on the island, and we saw the others had horses, so was this really the same horse Kate (and Sawyer) saw, or was it the MIB for whatever reason? Or is it something else like Walt being able to be in places where he shouldn't be?

They really have too many questions going right now. I have a feeling there will be a lot dangling that the writers are going to have to answer to.

Posted: **Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:10 pm**

I had completely forgotten: Smokey appeared to Michael, as Christian, right before the bomb on the freighter went off. He said "you can go now, Michael". As if he was the one keeping Michael alive to fulfill his purpose.

We know that this is the monster - he was dressed as he was in the cabin and at the donkey wheel, and his appearance was accompanied by the whispers.

Posted: **Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:49 pm**

Cagliostro wrote:I think Richard's wife was indeed a ghost, but it doesn't explain how MIB impersonated her. Also, there are two other things that seem anomalies from previous seasons:
1. Dave - Hurley's imaginary friend. Did he ever truly exist? It sure seems like the MIB was using that form to manipulate Hurley to kill himself. Or was this all in Hurley's mind after all?
2. Kate's horse - I'm guessing it didn't die on the island, and we saw the others had horses, so was this really the same horse Kate (and Sawyer) saw, or was it the MIB for whatever reason? Or is it something else like Walt being able to be in places where he shouldn't be?

They really have too many questions going right now. I have a feeling there will be a lot dangling that the writers are going to have to answer to.

1. I believe Dave was an impersonation. IIRC, didn't Hurley pick up a tennis shoe that shouldn't have been there? I think this is a clue about the dead impersonations. Dave was in Hurley's mind, just as Isabella was in Richard's mind. I'm not sure that the location of the death is so important.
2. Not just the horse, but Vincent. How else would someone keep tabs on strangers without them knowing? Both of the Others that infiltrated were discovered.

I speculate that BLocke could impersonate the dead, and Jacob could do the same with living things (Vincent, the horse, Walt--he appeared to Locke when he lay on the mass grave--and Claire--when she told Kate not to bring Aaron back to the island). This partially explains Walt popping around when he was a captive of the Others. It might have something to do with Walt's affinity to the island, and Ben's comment that they bit off more than they could handle by taking Walt.

But all of this changed when Jacob died. BLocke is now the man in B--Locke, and Jacob is a ghost that only Hurley can see.

Posted: **Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:54 pm**

Murrin wrote:I had completely forgotten: Smokey appeared to Michael, as Christian, right before the bomb on the freighter went off. He said "you can go now, Michael". As if he was the one keeping Michael alive to fulfill his purpose.

We know that this is the monster - he was dressed as he was in the cabin and at the donkey wheel, and his appearance was accompanied by the whispers.

Maybe Michael truly was BLocke's tool, so it required his permission for Michael to die?

Posted: **Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:04 pm**

The problem with that is logically our friend should not be able to act outside the Island, and Michael had several points where he tried to kill himself in New York and couldn't. There's also the puzzle of why the ghost of Libby visited him in hospital and when he tried to set off his own bomb shortly after leaving Fiji.

Posted: **Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:57 pm**

This show's gotten to the point where there are so many questions to be answered that I don't remember everything that's in question in the first place...

Posted: **Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:22 pm**

yeah, i've long since quit speculating on any of this stuff and am just allowing the story to unfold for me as i watch.

more enjoyable to me that way. for what it's worth, i think there is a tendancy to over-think this storyline. i'm content to just watch and see what happens. i have low expectations for the end of it. it is, after all, television.

Posted: **Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:13 am**

lucimay wrote:i have low expectations for the end of it. it is, after all, television.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

FRACK no. This is J. J. ABRAMS we're talking about!!! Alias season 4 and Lost season 2 had like the most epic finales in history besides the end of the reimagined Battlestar: Galactica.

AUGH!!! ABRAMS, you better fucking pull through, my man!!!

Posted: **Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:58 am**

lucimay wrote:yeah, i've long since quit speculating on any of this stuff and am just allowing the story to unfold for me as i watch. more enjoyable to me that way. for what it's worth, i think there is a tendancy to over-think this storyline. i'm content to just watch and see what happens. i have low expectations for the end of it. it is, after all, television.

I keep reminding myself of some of the more disastrous series finales, such as X-files and Seinfeld. Even so, an unsatisfying conclusion would be so disappointing.

IIRC, you just caught up this past fall.

A lot of us have been mincing this for 6 years.

Posted: **Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:19 pm**

I just had a thought. Hurley won the lottery with the numbers, is that a hint he'll eventually be the candidate that win's Jacob's job?

Posted: **Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:12 pm**

sindatur wrote:I just had a thought. Hurley won the lottery with the numbers, is that a hint he'll eventually be the candidate that win's Jacob's job?

Guess that depends: would it be lucky or unlucky to have to spend a few hundred years or more making sure the bad kid stays in his "time out" chair?

Posted: **Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:14 pm**

Vraith wrote:
sindatur wrote:I just had a thought. Hurley won the lottery with the numbers, is that a hint he'll eventually be the candidate that "win's" Jacob's job?
Guess that depends: would it be lucky or unlucky to have to spend a few hundred years or more making sure the bad kid stays in his "time out" chair?

Yea, I forgot to put "Quote" marks on "Wins".

Posted: **Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:14 pm**

What happens if someone is able to win Jacob's argument for him? Perhaps the cork won't be needed any more.

Posted: **Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:30 pm**

Murrin wrote:What happens if someone is able to win Jacob's argument for him? Perhaps the cork won't be needed any more.

I'm kinda hoping the ending does have a relationship with that idea: not as simplistic as "I am HEALED!," but, say...a metaphorical first step on a new road.

Kevin's Watch

Lost--Season 6 - Spoilers Abound!!!