The Dark Knight: Tomatometer 94%

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Chrysalis
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Post by Chrysalis »

Cagliostro wrote:Wow....I've been reading through the negative reviews on rottentomatos, and it is from people that either really like Jack Nicholson's performance and can't accept a less cartoony one, or that it is too dark and grim. Or both. Which means I'm looking forward to this.
I must say I agree with this! I was never a big fan of the earlier Batman films . I think they should be dark and grim!

I've booked my tickets to see it - at the IMAX. I'm not sure if that was good planning on my part as I haven't seen anything on IMAX before but it will be an experience!
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Post by DukkhaWaynhim »

Chrysalis wrote:I've booked my tickets to see it - at the IMAX. I'm not sure if that was good planning on my part as I haven't seen anything on IMAX before but it will be an experience!
To enjoy IMAX, take my advice and get there early enough to get a seat reasonably close to middle and center - if you get stuck on the sides or, even worse, in the front row, you will develop tennis-neck trying to folllow the action.

You have been warned.

dw
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Yup, Heath did an amazing job!! Scarey as hell!!

Lots I liked about the movie. Alas, it was too much. Shoulda been just the Joker. There was no need to add Two-Face. What, the Joker isn't enough?

But I'll likely watch it again on dvd, just for Heath. Certainly the best Joker of all.
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Post by Loredoctor »

I think that thematically, Two-Face was necessary for the movie.
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Post by Zarathustra »

Spoiler
I agree that Two Face was used to serve the themes. But he wasn't used well as a character. When a character's main purpose is how he helps develop a theme, he can only fail as an element of story-telling, especially if the character is forced into this usage in a way that compromises, contradicts, or doesn't respect his journey up until the point when he becomes a theme vehicle.

I felt his transition was rushed. I felt that his turn from absolute good to absolute evil was too easy. It all depended on Rachel's death, but their relationship prior to that death never had the weight to justify such a catastrophic turn towards evil. Lots of people lose a wife. Very few turn into an evil villain afterwards.

And when he did turn into a villain, he was a pathetic villain. He's going to threaten a little boy? That's just weak. For all the buildup to him turning into a villain, he was waaay underused. But that's because his entire turn was never meant to benefit his character. It was only there so Gordon could have his little epilogue about the Dark Knight. It served a thematic purpose, not the character.

It is to Nolan's credit that he didn't explain the Joker's beginnings. We didn't have to wonder if his turn was believable. His evil was simply a given. It was great that he gave contradictory explanations for his beginnings.
Reading other discussions of this movie (Home Theater Forum, Aint it Cool News, etc.), I keep seeing people complain that members of the audience laughed at the Joker's antics. Did this laughter bug anyone else? As for me, I laughed quite a bit. Yes, I understand that Ledger wasn't playing the role for laughs; that it was a dark, maniacal performance. But I *like* dark humor. I thought his first magic trick--while grotesque--was simply so badass and unexpected, that it made me laugh. No, if someone did this in real life, I wouldn't laugh. But it's a comic book movie, people. Not real life. I think the ones who complain at others laughing during this movie are taking it way, way too seriously.

But then I laughed at a couple of Hannibal Lector's lines, too. Maybe I'm just f-ed up. :twisted:
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Post by Worm of Despite »

I'm seeing it tomorrow after lunch, once my friend gets back from Mississippi. I also closed my eyes whilst scrolling through this thread. I don't even want to read non-spoilerific praise of the film.
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Post by Loredoctor »

Malik23 wrote:
Spoiler
I agree that Two Face was used to serve the themes. But he wasn't used well as a character. When a character's main purpose is how he helps develop a theme, he can only fail as an element of story-telling, especially if the character is forced into this usage in a way that compromises, contradicts, or doesn't respect his journey up until the point when he becomes a theme vehicle.

I felt his transition was rushed. I felt that his turn from absolute good to absolute evil was too easy. It all depended on Rachel's death, but their relationship prior to that death never had the weight to justify such a catastrophic turn towards evil. Lots of people lose a wife. Very few turn into an evil villain afterwards.

And when he did turn into a villain, he was a pathetic villain. He's going to threaten a little boy? That's just weak. For all the buildup to him turning into a villain, he was waaay underused. But that's because his entire turn was never meant to benefit his character. It was only there so Gordon could have his little epilogue about the Dark Knight. It served a thematic purpose, not the character.

It is to Nolan's credit that he didn't explain the Joker's beginnings. We didn't have to wonder if his turn was believable. His evil was simply a given. It was great that he gave contradictory explanations for his beginnings.
Reading other discussions of this movie (Home Theater Forum, Aint it Cool News, etc.), I keep seeing people complain that members of the audience laughed at the Joker's antics. Did this laughter bug anyone else? As for me, I laughed quite a bit. Yes, I understand that Ledger wasn't playing the role for laughs; that it was a dark, maniacal performance. But I *like* dark humor. I thought his first magic trick--while grotesque--was simply so badass and unexpected, that it made me laugh. No, if someone did this in real life, I wouldn't laugh. But it's a comic book movie, people. Not real life. I think the ones who complain at others laughing during this movie are taking it way, way too seriously.

But then I laughed at a couple of Hannibal Lector's lines, too. Maybe I'm just f-ed up. :twisted:
I laughed as well.
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Post by Menolly »

Malik23 wrote:But then I laughed at a couple of Hannibal Lector's lines, too. Maybe I'm just f-ed up. :twisted:
Hannibal Lechter's lines in Silence of the Lambs were classic. Grim, dark humor indeed. But, definitely humor.

Still haven't seen The Dark Night. We need to rent Batman Begins and watch that first, but the DVDs of it at Blockbuster are constantly rented out. So probably a few weeks yet for us.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

I talked about the laughter from the audience in my post. I've always thought of Joker as a sick bastard and so to me there's nothing funny about him, even in a dark humor sort of way. Of course I've followed the characters from the comics practically all of my life, and I do tend to become emotionally involved in stories that I love....Thomas Covenant anyone? ;)
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Post by Zarathustra »

dlb, I must have forgotten you mentioned laughing. (I've read lots of discussions by now.) I can see your point. I wouldn't want people laughing at Covenant. It even bugged me when people laughed at Gollum during his classic monologue in Two Towers, the scene where he talks to himself.

But in this case, we're talking about a guy named Joker. He did actually make jokes (the magic trick, specifically the play on the word, "disappear," was clearly a joke). And he did quite a lot of laughing himself.

Sometimes I laugh because something is badass, not because it's funny. Something can be so perfect (like Ledger's performance), and both the actor and the character are approaching their work with such passion, when they pull off something unexpected, it makes me laugh with pure joy. Especially if it's done with a smartass, sarcastic quip.

And a lot of the movie was clearly written for laughs. For instance, Fox's reply toward the
Spoiler
blackmail attempt
. Alfred's, "But I did tell you." And when the Joker says to Rachel,
Spoiler
"You've got a little fight in you. I like that." And Batman responds, "Then you're going to love me."


I thought there were lots of funny moments. I laughed quite a bit, actually. I think a lot of the humor went over people's heads. Ki and I always laugh at the same stuff (compatible sense of humor). A lot of times in movies I feel like we're the only two people in the theater laughing. For instance, there would be times when Bruce Wayne would say something smartass, sarcastic, or having double-meaning, and I don't think anyone else would catch it because I'd laugh and then immediately feel conscious of how quiet the theater was.

Can anyone give an example where people laughed that clearly was not laugh-worthy?
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Post by kevinswatch »

I see nothing wrong with laughing at the Joker. Some people just need to lighten up.

Personally, I tend to find humor in everything, so I often find myself as the only person in a theater laughing.

Anyway, I really enjoyed it, and I thought Ledger was outstanding.

I'm still not a huge fan of Bale. And seriously, what's the deal with his "Batman voice"? Batman = A low, raspy, angry voice? It really started to get on my nerves...

My only other complaint is the length. Hollywood seriously needs to edit movies down more. It was too long and had too much stuff that they could have cut out. My friends and I were talking, and by the end of the film, we had completely forgotten what had happened in the first half of the movie. And there were too many parts were I was simply just thinking "Ok, now what just happened? Why are they doing this? What's going on?"

But I did enjoy the complexity of it. I think they're on the right path with this new series of Batman movies. And I liked this one more than Batman Begins.

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Post by Zarathustra »

I was confused about the Bat voice myself, until it dawned on me that this is simply part of his disguise. But seriously, with all his gadgetry, couldn't he just use a "voice modulator" or something? It sounded like Bale really hurt his vocal cords in this movie.

Yes, I agree that the movie was too long. But that's not because of the length (paradoxically). If they had gone longer, and didn't have such abrupt cutting, I think it could have worked. But they tried to do too much, and then cut it down to make the runtime shorter. (I've heard there was a 3 hour cut of the movie before editing.) The last 30 minutes felt too rushed. I've talked about a certain character's "transformation," and how that wasn't earned by the screenwriters. But now I'm thinking it was the editors who are to blame.

They had a nice ending planned, in terms of theme. I like where the Dark Knight is at the end of this film, and the steps they took to get him there were necessary. But the story they wanted to tell was too big for the runtime. They should have completely cut the ferry sequence (or at least the scenes on the boats themselves), and added more development for the main characters. We really didn't need to see the voting, the second-guessing, the chickening out, the convict doing what he does, etc. That bogged down what should have been the climactic final act with a bunch of people we don't care about, doing something that really wasn't spectacular enough to be included in the climax.

Again, I like the point they were trying to make, and the themes they developed. I just didn't like the execution.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

kevinswatch wrote:Some people just need to lighten up.
I'll take that under advisement. ;)
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Post by The Dreaming »

I think a lot of moments with the joker *were* timed for comedy. That's part of what makes happening so black. From his perspective, it's all pretty frigging hilarious. He's a good enough comedian to know how to deliver a joke, even if the joke
Spoiler
Blowing up a hospital
isn't funny. His character was entrancing enough to fool a laugh out of the audience a few times.

After all, a lot of people believe that laughter is a response to pain, a coping mechanism. That makes the Joker even more frightening.

I saw the movie last night and was blown away. My nerves are still a little frayed by it. The hype is true, Ledger is spellbinding.
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Post by Chrysalis »

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:
Chrysalis wrote:I've booked my tickets to see it - at the IMAX. I'm not sure if that was good planning on my part as I haven't seen anything on IMAX before but it will be an experience!
To enjoy IMAX, take my advice and get there early enough to get a seat reasonably close to middle and center - if you get stuck on the sides or, even worse, in the front row, you will develop tennis-neck trying to folllow the action.

You have been warned.

dw
I consider myself warned! I think we are sitting in the middle about 6 or 7 back. I probably should have tried for further back but...well i'm short and no matter where I sit I get the tallest person in the house sitting in front of me so.. :?
Malik23 wrote:But then I laughed at a couple of Hannibal Lector's lines, too. Maybe I'm just f-ed up. :twisted:


I LOVED Lector as a character.
You are not alone finding humour in the darker characters. A good friend and I used to spend far too much time in our youth watching very twisted horror and thriller flicks. A good evil character with a dark sense of humour can make a film I think!
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Post by Fist and Faith »

I laughed at a few places. "All I want is my phone call." :lol: I thought the delivery of that line, at that time, was very funny.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
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Post by Usivius »

The short-ish review:

All actors did amazing jobs at roles. Period.
Action was great.
Make-up fx were amazing.
Punches of humour were fantastic but too few (not asking for TV Batman by a stretch, but a few more breaks from the visual oppression)
Too long (or at least 'felt' too long) --- can't say what I would cut though.
Ended like a thud .. blah. A packed house and no one clapped or anything .. credits roll and people shambled out ... not because they didn't like it, but because the film makers didn't give the audience something to cheer or 'feel good' about. (i know i know --- we don't need a happy ending, just a satifying one ... not a thud.)
Too much of the gravelly-voice of batman... by the end I just wanted to hear him inhale helium...
Bad editing, both visually and sound editing: hard to figure out what was going on in some scenes (already mentioned) and dialogue lost in a few places with swelling music and backgroud sounds... (and I was in a top-notch theatre with awesome sound).

Yah, OK I can bitch, but the only reason I do is because I saw som many things that could have made it perfect, and it very nearly was.
Spoiler
one part that really needed a huge punch was the reaction when the two ferries of people opt not to kill each other. MAN! that needed a better reaction and hold on the Joker and perhaps even a cruel, deep-throated chuckle from Batman at the Joker's expence. THAT would haev made me stand up and cheer.
But despite not having any moments in the movie to really cheer for the good guy, I thought it was a great movie.

8 out of 10.

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Post by Zarathustra »

Fist and Faith wrote:I laughed at a few places. "All I want is my phone call." :lol: I thought the delivery of that line, at that time, was very funny.
I thought that was funny, or should have been, but I was too busy trying to figure out how
Spoiler
Joker got loose and where he got that piece of glass he was holding to the cop's throat, and why they'd leave the city's most wanted criminal without handcuffs and watched by only one inept guard . . . felt more like Austin Powers for a moment, but not in a funny way.
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Post by Montresor »

Malik23 wrote:
Spoiler
Joker got loose and where he got that piece of glass he was holding to the cop's throat, and why they'd leave the city's most wanted criminal without handcuffs and watched by only one inept guard . . . felt more like Austin Powers for a moment, but not in a funny way.
Spoiler
It was right behind his head in every shot in which he was sitting on the floor while taunting the cop into beating him. That only beggars the question - are police so stupid in Gotham City that they allow a dangerous sociopath to be within hand's reach of shattered glass? The answer is, yes, this is Gotham City where cops (like every super-hero setting, just about) are utterly stupid.
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Post by Zarathustra »

I missed the glass. I guess that makes me as unobservant as a Gotham cop!

:)
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