Dust of Dreams [spoilers!]

Post by **Onos T'oolan** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:26 am

I'll tell you something else. In MoI, Olar Ethil sure seemed a lot less "I'm the biggest, meanest thing in the world!!" She often called Silverfox "Summoner", making it sound like "Ma'am." And she said, "Summoner. As I neared this place, you commanded my dreams." So is Silverfox THAT incredibly powerful? Or did Erikson reconsider Olar, and give her this bigger role? Or was Olar just putting on an act for some reason?

Post by **aliantha** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:26 am

Murrin wrote:One of the names she gave for herself was Burn. She's the daughter of Tiam.

Yes, exactly, and that also makes me wonder what the heck Quick Ben has gotten himself into by promising to save Burn. Y'know? Because clearly Burn's not sleeping, or dying, if Olar Ethil is walking around in a T'lan Imass getup.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:41 am

I suspect it's a little - but not quite - like Knuckles and the Twins - the Burn we know of is a younger manifestation that arose from worship distinct from Olar Ethil. Olar Ethil herself has been trapped by the Ritual in a single form and unable to fill these kinds of roles.

Post by **lucimay** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:22 pm

hmmmm. i didn't even realize olar was in the series already! (well who can keep TRACK of these people...er...gods or whatever they all are!)

who is Tiam again? ya'll are confusing me with all this talk of Burn. i thought i knew what was going on but reading your posts i now think i didn't!!

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:35 pm

Tiam is the big momma dragon all the half-dragons slept with, killed, drank the blood of, and slept with all over again, not all in that order.

Post by **aliantha** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:31 pm

But Murrin, Olar doesn't say that Burn is a facet of her, or a manifestation of one side of her. She says, pretty much straight out, "I am Burn" (and all those other goddesses). It didn't sound to me like she had evolved/splintered/whatever -- it sounded to me like she has a finger in a whole bunch of pies.

(I expect that when I read the passage again I'll see that I misread it, because you're usually right.

)

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:25 pm

She said it was one of the names she's known by. There was no direct connection made to the whole goddess-sleeping-under-the-earth part.

Post by **aliantha** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:03 am

Well, I'm not going to argue with you, but that strikes me as splitting hairs.

There's only one Burn so far in this series -- the one who's sleeping under the earth. If Olar Ethil says Burn is one of the names she's known by, I'm inclined to make an intuitive leap....

Post by **lucimay** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:57 pm

hmmmm. yeah it is sort ofconfusing for her to say that, olar i mean, but i remember when i read it, i didn't take it so much literally as figuratively.

i figured it had something to do with like how krul is the warrens. krul's veins are the warrens however it doesn't stop him manifesting in a separate corporeal form right?

or am i completely off track here?

Post by **aliantha** » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:00 pm

No, you're right about K'rul. But K'rul doesn't have 80 million different personalities (one to suit every occasion!

)as Olar Ethil apparently does...

Which begs the question: which of Olar Ethil's manifestations is the real one? Is she just a jerk in bonecaster form, or in general?

Post by **Onos T'oolan** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:53 pm

I have 200 pages to go. Problem is, I have absolutely no idea what's going on. I don't know what very many characters are up to. And the few I do, I don't know their motivations.

Why do Kil and Knuckles want Errant dead?

What does Olar want?

Was Icarium really a ghost hanging with those others? Or was he real, and only imagining everything?

Did we see Brood break Dragnipur?

Is Draconus also Father Light? What's this sword he now has?

The Shake... Forget it. Way too confusing to even know what to ask.

HOW THE HELL DID SHADOWTHRONE AND COTILLION ORCHESTRATE... ALL OF THE ABOVE!?!?!?!?!???!!!!! As well as the other thousand questions.

Maybe some of this will be answered in the next 200 pages. Sure hope so. Don't feel the need to answer any of this, Murrin. I'm just venting.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:02 pm

Some of the stuff was either implied or explained in the text (Icarium's machine in Letheras collected souls and gave them to him, and he was out of his mind for a while), others I just don't know where you got the idea from (Draconus as Father Light?).

But do you really not see how much of a selfish, backwards-looking ass the Errant is to not know why they're sick of him?

Post by **Onos T'oolan** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:26 pm

Murrin wrote:Some of the stuff was either implied or explained in the text (Icarium's machine in Letheras collected souls and gave them to him, and he was out of his mind for a while),

Yup. He's the only one I actually thought I did have a clue about. Heh.

Murrin wrote:others I just don't know where you got the idea from (Draconus as Father Light?).

The timing. "Mother Dark is back. Father Light must be, too." BOOM! Draconus returns! I'd never imagined he was, but thought maybe they were implying it.

Murrin wrote:But do you really not see how much of a selfish, backwards-looking ass the Errant is to not know why they're sick of him?

Of course. But there's more to it than that. Mael asks when the knife is gonna be plunged into Errant's back. If Errant is of no use, then why haven't they killed him yet? And if he is of use, then Mael should know the answer: Whenever Errant does whatever it is they need him for.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:46 pm

Mael's just stirring the pot, I think. Everyone can see the Errant is past his usefulness, but it simplifies things to let him think he's in control for a while.

Post by **Onos T'oolan** » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:01 pm

It'd simplify things more if they killed him now. Let him live, and he'll screw things up for them somehow or other.

Are they seriously hoping he'll take on Paran? Maybe they want to test Paran's power.

Post by **lucimay** » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:16 pm

if i remember correctly, they find a "use" for him.

(the errant, that is)

Post by **Onos T'oolan** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:06 am

OK then... 90 pages to go. But I've gotten far enough for this...

At least five Elient - Telorast, Curdle, Ampelas, Kalse, Eloth - tried to grab the Shadow Throne, and got eternal chaining as punishment. (It seems impossible that Telorast and Curdle are two of the other three, after all.) Kind of interesting.

Also interesting how many beings are given eternal chaining.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:16 am

Hmm, are you saying that the Rooted represent chained Eleint specifically?

Post by **aliantha** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:16 pm

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I didn't connect Ampelas with Ampelas Rooted 'til just now.

So if there's a Telorast (formerly) Rooted and a Curdle (formerly) Rooted -- where are they now? Would they become freed, like Moon Spawn? I was under the impression that the floating fortresses were of a different design. But maybe not, given that Moon Spawn was described, basically, as a floating rock. As if it had been ripped out of the bedrock...

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:39 pm

The Rooted are described as fundamentally different from the Moon's Spawn type skykeeps, first of all they're rooted to the ground, and secondly they're carved into the form of dragons. The original skykeeps were, if I remember rightly, Nah'Ruk vessels, and it seems like at some late point in their life the Che'Malle created their own versions, with their odd homage to dragons.

The reverence shown by the CheMalle toward dragons is a bit odd, they have their image of a duality between magic-as-life (Dragons representing magic) and the Other, being the Otataral dragon, who is inimical to magic and seems to slay dragons purely by nature.

The surviving K'Chain Che'Malle's own history and philosophy seem intrinsically tied to what is about to happen in the Warrens, with the release of the Otataral dragon. It seems highly likely that she will destroy the old Warrens, thereby slaying K'rul, and that Icarium's new system of Warrens will settle into their place. The current crop of gods will finally pass away and the newer gods replace them. Sechul Lath and Kilmandaros are both fully are of this outcome, whereas Errastas has the misguided belief that they can eliminate everything K'rul did and afterwards restore things to how they were before he did it.

It's really unclear yet what place the other major event unfolding will have: the Forkrul Assail preparing to use the Crippled God's heart as a means to bring about a manifestation of their own Warren. We've been deliberately kept in the dark regarding that, the potential new Chaining, what the Adjunct intends, and where Heboric and the Jade Slashes will fit in.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Dust of Dreams [spoilers!]