Kevin's Watch

lucimay wrote: who was it said that they thought romeo and juliet (bones in cave) were rose and whatshisbutt?

Adam and Eve and Rose and Bernard. I think it was several of us that said that. At least the big Z and myself at different points, I think. At least someone that could be bothered to put up a link after I said it later.

oh yeah, adam and eve. right.

yeah i like the idea.

lucimay wrote:...
the writers of the show, along the way, were obviously flipping back and forth on this character and making up shit as they went along in an attempt to progress the storyline and leave jack as open as possible to whatever they came up with down the road...or maybe not "obviously" but it certainly appeared that way to me, and i think Fox really handled that very well.

No, they have known exactly where this story is going since the beginning. And ever since season 2 (3?), they've known exactly which steps they would take to get there, down to how many episodes it would take. And specifically, they knew how Jack would end up, because

Spoiler

the last scene of season 6 has already been filmed a long time ago. It's a Jack scene.

He's the only actor who knows how this will end. So, no, they haven't been just "making shit up," especially with regards to Jack.

Lucimay wrote: yeah i don't consider showing women as being capable of "typical male activities" is showing them as equal to men anyway.

Yes, we agree. But the history of the feminist movement hasn't been as enlightened as you and I, apparently. For instance, the "equal pay for equal work" nonsensical rallying cry. That's certainly based on the idea of women being able to do work as well as men (even though men don't take months off at a time to have babies, and are more aggressive when it comes to seeking raises/promotions, work in hazardous conditions more often, work longer hours, etc.) But it seems that you and I would agree, for instance, that the feminist outcry for equal pay is based on a false premise of women doing equal work of men. Like you, I agree that this is not the basis of the respect and rights that women deserve, and it is nonsensical to define a woman's worth relative to men and still claim this is somehow empowering women.

Catching up on everything that's been said.

Luci--Interesting what you have to say. Sawyer himself says he is a con and will always be a con. Now, I like Sawyer. And I think he has a lot of redeeming qualities, but he is just as selfish as Jack. Jack usually ends up helping others in his own selfishness while Sawyer will hurt others to get what he wants. And even if you disregard what Sawyer's baby mama says, Kate tells Sawyer what the baby mama said, and Sawyer didn't disagree with the baby mama's assessment. His only retort was that they (Sawyer and Kate) wouldn't have worked. Though I like to think he cares for Juliet, the life he established with Juliet in the 70s in Otherton is a con. Has he changed? Can he change? I don't know that. I hope that, but I don't know that. That makes me wonder if we'll ever know that. But, I digress.

When I am watching and thinking about the show, I try to use the character's own words or the words of other characters to analyze them. Has Jack (or any other character) said that Jack wants those deaths off his conscience? I thought that Jack wanted things to be back to where they were supposed to be for two reasons: people would still be alive (not all the deaths that occurred on the island are Jack's fault, like Boone and Shannon) and b/c of the pain of knowing, loving and losing Kate.

Stepping outside what I usually do....But so what if Jack doesn't want any deaths on his conscience...do you think Sawyer loses any sleep over any hardship he causes anyone? Does Sawyer want to turn back the hands of time to undo the deaths he himself caused (like that innocent man he killed in Australia)? I doubt it.

The only truly remarkable thing I ever saw Sawyer do was turning down that one con job over that couple's little child. And that was only b/c of his own experience as a child. It didn't make him stop being a con though. It didn't make him stop hurting people in general. Even after he knew he had a daughter, it was more important to him to keep being a con than to even try to build a life with or for his own daughter. His need for revenge led him to kill an innocent man. He told Charlie once that he is a bad man and that he's never done a good thing in his life. I think the few good things he has done have been done for his own selfish reasons.

I don't know if ethical is the right word to use to describe Sawyer, but that's just my opinion. I like his character. I want to believe he can be redeemed but I can't put my wants and wishes on his character...that's not fair to his character.

Interesting analysis, Ki, I'd like to add a bit of my own. A key difference between Jack and Sawyer is that Jack is a control freak, if you will. Sawyer just rolls with the punches. As a result, it's not surprising that when offered the opportunity, Jack will try to change time and Sawyer will not. That doesn't mean that Sawyer doesn't feel bad for what he's done, but he lives with "the hand he's dealt." Jack, however, is obsessed with getting things done right and proper, an irritating characteristic that, no doubt, helps him be a good doctor.

Anyone seen Lurch? He used to go into quite some detail on Lost...

Orlion wrote:Interesting analysis, Ki, I'd like to add a bit of my own. A key difference between Jack and Sawyer is that Jack is a control freak, if you will. Sawyer just rolls with the punches. As a result, it's not surprising that when offered the opportunity, Jack will try to change time and Sawyer will not. That doesn't mean that Sawyer doesn't feel bad for what he's done, but he lives with "the hand he's dealt." Jack, however, is obsessed with getting things done right and proper, an irritating characteristic that, no doubt, helps him be a good doctor.

Now that is an excellent point. I was thinking earlier that perhaps Sawyer maybe more genuine in that he seems to accept who he is but that didn't settle quite right with me....your point though is a much better explanation. I work with physicians and the surgeons I've known are control freaks, a tad obsessive compulsive, a trait that they probably ought to have. When you said that, I almost put my hand on my head, like "duh." I know that! So, I'm glad you added your bit.

Have any of you listened to the commentary yet by Cuse and Lindelof on Season 5?

yeah good points by all. i prolly just like sawyer better.

I hope you don't think I'm picking on Sawyer. I do really like Sawyer. He's one of my favorite characters. And Jack does have major issues too. They all do.

You could say they're all a little bit... lost

No! Keep your rotten produce away from my face!

Ki wrote:I hope you don't think I'm picking on Sawyer. I do really like Sawyer. He's one of my favorite characters. And Jack does have major issues too. They all do.

why would i care if you pick on sawyer? he's a guy in a tv show!

Jack has always had the same big flaw, summed up perfectly by a line from the S5 episodes I'm currently watching through: "I promise you, I will fix this."
He takes it too personally, he makes promises he can't keep, and he obsesses, all over making things right, and him being the one to make them right.

lucimay wrote:

Ki wrote:I hope you don't think I'm picking on Sawyer. I do really like Sawyer. He's one of my favorite characters. And Jack does have major issues too. They all do.

why would i care if you pick on sawyer? he's a guy in a tv show!

LOL!

Murrin is picking on Jack now.

Guess there was some contention for a bit that the BOs State of the Union was gunna bump the season premier of LOST:

content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2010/01/lost-wins-out-over-state-of-the-union/1

Kil Tyme wrote:Guess there was some contention for a bit that the BOs State of the Union was gunna bump the season premier of LOST:

content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2010/01/lost-wins-out-over-state-of-the-union/1

A friend of mine has been really bent, because his last two speeches this week interupted As the World Turns, both speeches apparently saying the same darned things, and after he sat on his comments for over a week about the Christmas plot, the Media had to rush right on the air with the information the minute he decided to speak on it.

State of the Union Address, probably wouldn't interfere with LOST here on the West Coast though, as LOST is at 9pm and those SotU speeches are typically at 5 or 6. That would be a problem for the East Coasters, though

Finally finished season 5, and going back through this topic to look at some of the stuff that was brought up.


Malik's question about turning the key/pushing the button: I expect that's Dr Chang's doing. The key sets off a bomb that destroys the anomaly in the way that the H-Bomb was supposed to, but Dharma still wanted to study it. So they set up the button as a way of keeping the anomaly from causing another incident without having to destroy it, thinking to work out a way to get their studies back on track. Dharma doesn't really keep its people in the know unless necessary, hence the vague instructional video. Kelvin and Desmond simply never had an opportunity to find out anything more than what previous button pushers and the video told them.


Now heading back to a comment I made about Claire surviving the explosion in S4 then running off with Christian:

Murrin wrote:A wizard did it.

I think I was right, in a sense. I think we'll get a flashback of some kind showing that Christian/Loophole intervened and saved her from the explosion.


As to whether things will change... I don't know. In terms of the larger plot, nothing that they did in season 5 noticably altered the known course of events - in fact Faraday, who said he only returned to the island when he realised things could be changed, did nothing but fulfill the course he was originally set on. He even told Charlotte to get off the island.


Did anyone manage to keep track of the canoes from Hydra island? There were three canoes originally. Frank and Sun took one. Locke and Ben took another. The Ajira 316 people took the third. But in the early flashes, the time-travelling group found a beach with two of those canoes on it, stole one of them, then were shot at by some unknown persons. Where does that fit?

sindatur wrote:

Kil Tyme wrote:Guess there was some contention for a bit that the BOs State of the Union was gunna bump the season premier of LOST:

content.usatoday.com/communities/entertainment/post/2010/01/lost-wins-out-over-state-of-the-union/1

A friend of mine has been really bent, because his last two speeches this week interupted As the World Turns, both speeches apparently saying the same darned things, and after he sat on his comments for over a week about the Christmas plot, the Media had to rush right on the air with the information the minute he decided to speak on it.

State of the Union Address, probably wouldn't interfere with LOST here on the West Coast though, as LOST is at 9pm and those SotU speeches are typically at 5 or 6. That would be a problem for the East Coasters, though

Gibbs says the State of the Union will not interfere with the LOST premier. It's a 3 hour event, including the 1 hour refresher. If the State of the Union were to interfere, I bet ABC would've just moved the premier of LOST.

President Obama and the kids probably do not want to miss the premiere either.

O M G i KNEW rousseau looked familiar but i couldn't place her!!!

i was just fartin around on hulu lookin at some old babylon 5 episode and B I N G O! it hit me! DELENN is Rousseau!!!!

lucimay wrote:O M G i KNEW rousseau looked familiar but i couldn't place her!!!

i was just fartin around on hulu lookin at some old babylon 5 episode and B I N G O! it hit me! DELENN is Rousseau!!!!

LOL, my mom had the same reaction after watching S1, she knew she knew her, but, couldn't place her until I told her. I on the other hand adore Mira Furlan as Delenn, so I knew instantly from the first shock upon hearing here voice torturing Sayid