Whither the Watch?

[wayfriend]

I use "read posts since last visit". So the number of forums makes no difference to me. This need to consolidate them sounds like "I have too many phone numbers to remember" when I hear it.

I'd hate to see Mordant and Gap relegated to "Other works" though. If you can't dedicate a forum to discussion of The Gap, it's not much of an SRD fan site, if you ask me.

Chronicles-inspired art-work has little to do with the Hall of Gifts.

Lastly, I think an attitude of 'we should reorganize this way to reflect declining attendance' is off the mark. The right approach to take is, 'we should reorganize this way, to attract more discussion.' Don't be insular, be inviting. "Other works" isn't a great way to attract discussion on The Gap or Mordant's need.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

I use "read posts since last visit". So the number of forums makes no difference to me. This need to consolidate them sounds like "I have too many phone numbers to remember" when I hear it.

I'd hate to see Mordant and Gap relegated to "Other works" though. If you can't dedicate a forum to discussion of The Gap, it's not much of an SRD fan site, if you ask me.

Chronicles-inspired art-work has little to do with the Hall of Gifts.

Lastly, I think an attitude of 'we should reorganize this way to reflect declining attendance' is off the mark. The right approach to take is, 'we should reorganize this way, to attract more discussion.' Don't be insular, be inviting. "Other works" isn't a great way to attract discussion on The Gap or Mordant's need.

I use the "read posts since last visit" as well, and hence don't really understand the comments about "I don't visit SRD forum X" either.

The art forum may represent less than moldering banana peelings to some, but I'd like to remind that this area contains hundreds of hours of work from a small amount of people, and in my opinion should be kept on a visible place. A larger entity named something in the lines of "SRD fan works" would actually represent that side of KW even better. For music videos, urvile erotica, fanfics, Swordmain pin-ups, whatever strikes your fancy.

Therewith, why do we have separate forums for movies/TV shows/sports/whatnot but people want to get rid of the Gap board and Dissections for instance? Sorry, but...just doesn't make sense to me. Those could all fit under "other entertainment".

[Sorus]

I'd hate to see Mordant and Gap relegated to "Other works" though. If you can't dedicate a forum to discussion of The Gap, it's not much of an SRD fan site, if you ask me.

I agree. They may not be very active right now, but that could change.

[kevinswatch]

I don't think I'm removing the Gap and Mordant's Need forums.

-jay

[Sorus]

Awesome.

Also,

[ussusimiel]

Like most people I am for slimming down the numbers of forums (fora). While I am inclined towards the more drastic end of the suggestions I understand the impulse towards retaining the SRD-related topics out front (for the obvious reason). However, I am also in favour of the promotion of the most active forums into more prominent positions. The obvious example is the 'Tank. While a dedicated forum for politics might seem odd on a site for a fantasy and sci-fi author, it may be no coincidence that the work of a writer like SRD attracts passionate people of integrity. It is clearly the case that the political forum on this site has a level of activity, participation and quality that matches any other part of the site.

Recognising this may be part of the transition that I spoke about upthread. I came to the Watch to talk deeply about the Chronicles, yet the biggest surprise for me was when I found myself deep in debate in the 'Tank. It was refreshing and stimulating. While the 'Tank may not be to everyone's taste I think that it is very important to recognise how much of an addition it is to the forum, and that it should be positively promoted.

u.

[Ananda]

urvile erotica

This should have at least one top level forum dedicated to it.

I agree there are too many forums. In fact, I didn't even notice a forum I was interested in reading till recently because there is just so much stuff.

Still, unless you do something to attract new traffic, the site will just slowly become a place for just a few people to post. I don't know if people want to split the focus from SRD to bring in fresh traffic on a new focus or not, though.

[caamora]

Considering that most of us have discussed and dissected TCTC ad nauseum, I'm not surprised that the threads have withered. I tend to just lurk but it's been a while since I've even done that. Most people here I've friended on FB and keep up to date with everyone there.

[MsMary]

Lastly, I think an attitude of 'we should reorganize this way to reflect declining attendance' is off the mark. The right approach to take is, 'we should reorganize this way, to attract more discussion.' Don't be insular, be inviting.

I didn't think people were suggesting reorganizing to reflect declining attendance, but to make the forum more inviting. At least, that was what I was thinking of when I made my comments.

You and some others may use the posts since last visit. Not everyone does. A newcomer certainly won't, and so many forum to choose from can be overwhelming. Also, it tends to make conversation more difficult, as the conversation is taking place in too many places and fewer people may participate in a given conversation as a result. At least, that's my experience.

[Avatar]

Av, how much of a pain would it be to implement this kind of change?

Not that much actually.

I gotta go...will come back to read this in more detail.

--A

[I'm Murrin]

It seems like the number one most-agreed-with suggestion in this thread has been moving General Discussion up into the top category of the index, so we should maybe do that.

My own pick for what to do 2nd would be removing General SRD Discussion, and merging threads from there into General Discussion or Reed Stephens & Other Works, as appropriate. It seems like it would be a less controversial way to reduce the number of SRD forums. You could maybe choose to make it "Reed Stephens & Other SRD Discussion", if you think there's still a need to explicitly highlight a place for SRD discussion not directly connected to a book. I still think things like Elohimfest would be fine in Gen Disc, as they're more community event than SRD discussion.

I'd also bump Hall of Gifts into the Multifariam and add "art" to the description, but I don't think there's been a lot of agreement on that point yet. My reasoning is that it's a member-created-works forum, and art fits in with that (and with the "Hall of Gifts" title). I don't think putting art and writing together will in any way diminish either.

[I'm Murrin]

My own updated suggestion, offered for feedback and discussion. This is a lot less pared down than other suggestions (I decided to go for more of an early starting off point than a full reduction), but I did some rearranging and renaming things.

The Watch
Announcements & Suggestions
General Discussion
Q&A
The Summonsing
SRD Forums
The 1st & 2nd Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
The Last Chronicles
--Subforums
The Gap
Mordant's Need
Reed Stephens & Other SRD Discussion
Group Readings
Dissecting the Land
--Subforums
Casting the Augury
Ancillary Documentation
Revelstone
Hall of Gifts
Hile Troy's Think-Tank
The Close
[Title Undecided]
--Subforums: The Loresraat, The Galley, Doriendor Corishev, The Writer's Circle
The Waymeet
General Fantasy/Sci-fi Discussion
Scatterlings
--Subforums: Sports, Vespers, Video Games, Comics & Cartoons, Film & TV Shows, In Pursuit of Mallory
The Library
--Subforums
Gravin Threndor
Haven Farm
Archive
Archive
--Subforums

Notes:
-TC Movie discussion removed; TC Art Gallery merged into Hall of Gifts; Gen SRD Discussion removed.
-General Discussion moved from the Multifariam to The Watch
-The Multifariam category renamed The Waymeet; The Waymeet forum renamed Scatterlings and moved into The Waymeet category; The Library moved into The Waymeet Category; Flicks and TV Shows forums merged.
-Scatterlings category renamed Revelstone and moved above Waymeet category; Hall of Gifts, the Tank, the Close promoted to top-level forums; The Hegemony forum renamed something that better fits the theme of this category.
-Gravin Threndor moved into The Waymeet category, subforums moved to Archive or merged into main GT forum; Haven Farm moved into Waymeet category.

Where did the title "Scatterlings" come from, anyway? Does it have anything to do with SRD's books? Seems out of place. As does "The Hegemony" when every other title is TCTC themed.

Kinda wish there was a way to do away with the Archive, but those games kinda need to stay organised if we want to preserve them...

Does this make any sense at all, or am I leaving things too complex?

[TheFallen]

Couple of observations on your new proposed list, Murrin. I'll make these in order.

Could Q&A not be merged into Announcements and Suggestions in THE WATCH section?

In the SRD SECTION, despite their lack of activity (comparatively speaking), I get why you'd like to see Gap, Mordant and Reed remain on the homepage. But do we really need Group Readings there too? Couldn't Group Readings be sub-forums under the relevant main forums in the SRD SECTION? If so, that'd eliminate an entire homepage section altogether and declutter things. Just a thought.

Not sure what your "The Writers' Circle" is meant to be, but would it not be better under the Hall Of Gifts?

I'm confused by General Fantasy/Sci-Fi Discussion - is that not almost invariably about books? If so, should it not be a subforum under The Library? I'd actually make THE LIBRARY a main section, because I think it's a potentially important attractor.

I'm not sure (and never have been) why The Galley has ever been lumped in with the generally more serious topics in the (current) Hegemony - wouldn't it be better off under The Waymeet/Scatterlings?

I think I'm now suggesting:-

The Watch
Announcements, Suggestions and Q&A
General Discussion
The Summonsing

SRD Forums
The 1st & 2nd Chronicles of Thomas Covenant
-- Dissecting The Land
The Last Chronicles
-- TROTE, FR, AATE, TLD, Dissecting the LCs
The Gap
-- Ancillary Documentation
Mordant's Need
-- Casting The Augury
Reed Stephens & Other SRD Discussion

Revelstone
Hall of Gifts
-- The Scriptorium/Writers' Circle, The Studio/Art Gallery
Hile Troy's Think-Tank
The Close
Insequentry
-- The Loresraat, Doriendor Corishev

The Library (or The Athenaeum, if one wants to be poncier)
General Fantasy/Sci-fi Discussion
-- Various sub-forums
General Literature Discussion

The Waymeet
Scatterlings
-- Sports, Vespers, Video Games, Comics & Cartoons, Film & TV Shows, The Galley, In Pursuit of Mallory
Gravin Threndor
-- Active Games
-- Game Archives
Haven Farm

The above would total 5 main sections instead of the current 7 (or your proposed 6), and 17 main forums instead of the current 24 (or your proposed 22).

[I'm Murrin]

We've avoided putting subforums on active forums ever since the subforum mod was added to this site, because it makes it impossible to tell if the main forum has new posts when looking at the index. That's how the Last Chronicles forum wound up being locked with only the subforums open. It's not that it doesn't work, but that the forums would always display a white icon regardless of if there are new posts or not.

If we could fix that, or if we were on better forum software, then it'd be no problem to organise the forums in a much more sensible manner than we have been doing.

What we could do, with the current set up, is have a single "Group Readings" forum with a subforum for each series.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

urvile erotica

This should have at least one top level forum dedicated to it.

Did you read the novel epic "51 Shapes of Cavewight" starring Branl yet? The torrential influx of fanart for that should merit two top-levels at least! You know what they say about men with battering ram -shaped heads... :help:

On a more serious note, though, I know u. and Ananda have tried to kick me into posting in the Tank... Yet still I cannot shake away the feeling of coming from a different galaxy both regarding culture and values (well...some of that got spilled out in the fest...neopagan, very close non-straight friends (I remember ali's eyebrows shot up to her hairline at that , etc. I've mentioned it before that it's extremely America-centric; names and laws and corporations I can relate to as well as a starfish to bicycle riding flashing past. And afraid I have neither time nor interest to start learning the politics and governing hierarchy of a different continent from scratch, while my own country wallows in a wealth of problems of its own and has one of its worst governments in its entire history.

So, to promote that corner successfully try to make it less homogenic, more international, and, yes, softer (I'm not interested in getting called an idiot for believing in some harmless matter X. That's an instant turn-off and just immature.) So what's there at the moment I might be able to give an opinion on? Ananda's article about Icelandic elves, and perhaps post that Tom of Finland stamp news as it was already in English. (I'm behind with the whole Ukraine development.) You cannot use Google Translate successfully on Helsingin Sanomat. It just...cannot grasp the language sans butchering all meaning.

Revelstone
Hall of Gifts

Whatever it will be called, please indicate clearly in the decription that this is where people find fan works /art related to SRD's books. The present Hall of Gifts retains an aura of mystery. It took me almost a year to figure out people plonked their fanfics within.

[kevinswatch]

I started making a few incremental changes based on the ones that made the most sense to me. I am open to making others, based on popular suggestions. I think Murrin and Fallen are on the right track.

-jay

[aliantha]

Yet still I cannot shake away the feeling of coming from a different galaxy both regarding culture and values (well...some of that got spilled out in the fest...neopagan, very close non-straight friends (I remember ali's eyebrows shot up to her hairline at that , etc.

They did not! I just thought it was interesting. One of my kids is a lesbian.

Anyhow, the thread I started in there a few days ago seems to be liberal-friendly so far, and not terribly US-centric. I think maybe we just need to start a few threads on topics of general/global interest to counter the "Point/Counterpoint" atmosphere of a lot of the political threads (which, frankly, makes me tired pretty rapidly).

I see GenDisc has a new home this morning! Somebody upthread mentioned the Tank being the most popular forum on the Watch, which is true right now, but for many years that honor belonged to GenDisc.

TheFallen, you probably can't see the Writer's Forum unless you're a member.

More to say, but I need to get ready for work. (Bleah.)

[I'm Murrin]

Whaaaat. My forum got shrunk and hidden away!

More seriously: Biased though I may be, I don't think General Fantasy & Sci Fi should be a subforum. I still favour having Gen SF and Gen Lit top-level and looking at scrapping the Library subforums.

[kevinswatch]

I can change it back you big crybaby.

Just testing to see how I felt about having it there.

-jay

[I'm Murrin]

Heh. Experiment away - I'm sure we'll wind up with something that works once it's all settled.