Significance of the toy car?

[aliantha]

Maybe it'll be their getaway vehicle.

[Kenaustin Ardenol]

I don't think the car has any more signifigance than what is has to linden, a sign that on some level Jeremiah has an awareness of his adopted mother. A more significant detail if were trying to read things into every little thing is the relationship between Anele's( a being of earthpower) blindness and Kevin's dirt.

[drew]

That's what I've been saying. I'm sure the representaiton of a ceasure is there, but when it comes down to it, I felt it was a sign to Linden..and will further be a sign in books to come!

[ur-bane]

I know this has been left alone for a while...but I just had a thought to add.
The idea that the car will be a symbol to Linden of the true Jeremiah is outstanding, and I would tend to agree with it.....
But I had another thought on this.

Perhaps the car is to Jeremiah what shaving was to Covenant. Maybe it is his link to his reality. Maybe it is the vehicle that he will use to steady himself and link both himself and Linden back to their own real world when their time in the Land is done.

It is also possible that just as the transition was made from Covenant to Linden as the Land's champion, so will the transition from Linden to Jeremiah as the Land's champion take place. What significance the car has on that I don't know.

[Jerico]

The car could represent the vehicle that will trap lord foul. Foul will try to use it to escape the arch, and end up driving it around the enless loop forever!

[wayfriend]

New Idea¹: The toy car is a metaphor for Jeremiah's mental health. That is, while he was withdrawn, he had no interest in the car; the matter of him picking up the car during his abduction reflects that, at the same time, his awareness is being restored. So the car is symbolic of his healthy mentality: he had no interest in it for a long while, but now he is picking it up again.

The implications of this are that his mental disorder is somewhat self-induced, which is similar to Anele's madness; that he makes himself this way out of fear or guilt or something. That he is driven to be this way. It also implies that the process of his recovery was begun before his summonsing, and not because of his summonsing - which is a point of view that I am more happy with. As if an awareness of danger or a Raver's presence or something caused him to decide to 'snap out of it'. Taking the car may even have been a conscious symbolic act - a signal to Linden that Jeremiah was 'grasping reality' again.
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¹I always think it's a new idea, and then I find an older post with the same idea.

[ur-bane]

My response to your new idea is simply opinion, Wayfriend. But I tend to disagree that it is a symbol of his mental health. And the only reason is that IMHO, I don't think that Jeremiah's mental health is an issue.
I think that Jeremiah is perfectly sane and perfectly healthy. I think that his mind is simply elsewhere.

The Corner of His Eye by Dean Koontz comes to mind.

I am not blind in all the places where I am."

I think Jeremiah is like Barty in that Jeremiah has the ability to be in different places at the same time. Although his body is in the "real" world, I think his mind has been in the Land for 10 years. He has been forged as iron is forged to be used as a tool against Linden.

I know this has been said before, and because I find validity in a lot of the ideas about Jeremiah, I have a hard time subscribing to just one, but I believe that Jeremiah's influence in the Land is 3000 years old.......about 10 years in the "real" world. Jeremiah is the cause of Kevin's Dirt, and the proliferator of evil in the Land. Albeit unintentional as he a child easily influenced by Foul's "candy."
I also think that (bang! this just hit me) we are looking at the car in reverse. It is not as much a symbol to Linden that Jeremiah is real as much as it is a symbol to Jeremiah, a catalyst, if you will. It will be an association with the source of the car, the provider of care and love in his "real" world. It will be the device that breaks Foul's spell as he realizes that Linden is not the enemy, and that Foul is.

As I said, this is an opinion, but one which makes sense to me. Flame away!

[Old Darth]

Great posts here! I especially like Sunbaneglasses's call on the Creator not appearing to Linden but perhaps to Jeremiah. As to the car, the mention of red is probably related to the blood used to initiate the transfer to the Land by Foul. Red is the key for Jeremiah to use to trace Foul through the Arch of Time.

The car may represent a caesure or another possiblity. Perhaps a simpler one with far greater implications. The car represents the ability to traverse the Arch of Time. This is a talent that Jeremiah could have in the Land. His 'idiot savant' abilities with complex structures must be tied into this. And what could be more complex than the Arch of Time?

I am guessing that near the end of the Last Chronicles ie The Last Dark he will lead/navigate Linden, Convenant et al along the Arch of Time. He will take them to a time and/or place where Foul can be removed from the Land without destroying the Arch of Time. It could be a second genesis or a return to the original creation point.

'Course it is just a theory...

[Old Darth]

To continue my previous post I was looking at the etymological roots of the name Jeremiah. Jeremiah is one of the last books in the Old Testament and brings some interesting concepts to the table as possibilities for the Last Chronicles.

Here is an interesting link for Jeremiah

If you click on the link for Jeremiah you get a large PDF of his background. The origin of the name is subject to several interpretations such as "Jesus founds or establishes", "Jesus Exalts", "Jesus Throw Downs", "Jesus hurls", or "Jesus loosens (the womb)".

As a prophet Jeremiah spent much of his life imprisoned and was rejected by his family. He foretold the fall of Jerusalem and lived a life that most closely mirrored that of Christ.

No doubt that not all of this will apply to Donaldson's Jeremiah but some of the similarities are too close to be a coincidence.

Linden and Convenant may have some control over the Land and Earthpower, I believe Jeremiah will have abilities useful to the Arch of Time which is the next step that Donaldson will be taking his characters to.

[wayfriend]

My response to your new idea is simply opinion, Wayfriend. But I tend to disagree that it is a symbol of his mental health. And the only reason is that IMHO, I don't think that Jeremiah's mental health is an issue.

Ah, you disagree due to my ineptness at communication. By Jeremiah's mental health, I mean the very condition of his mind being "elsewhere" and nothing more and nothing less. That is, by picking up the car, he is signalling that his mind is coming back.

Of course, I don't buy in to the theory that his mind is in the Land. As I stated several times, if he was in the Land for 3000 years, he'd be all growed up, and would have long ago retired his horsey pajamas. It's a cute, cheap theory that explains the legos, but Jeremiah was no where near the rock when the summonsing happened, and the text in Runes firmly indicates that Jeremiah didn't enter his condition at the time he put his hand in the fire. Lastly, a mind cannot "leave" - there's no precident in the Chronicles - and there is the question of how a disembodied mind manifests in the Land. Finally, if his mind is gone, who is building things?

I think Jeremiah's mind wasn't ripped out of his body IMHO. Jeremiah is dealing with Ravers in the best way an 8 year old can - by hiding. Hiding in a way that Raver's cannot find you.

[ur-bane]

Ah, you disagree due to my ineptness at communication. By Jeremiah's mental health, I mean the very condition of his mind being "elsewhere" and nothing more and nothing less. That is, by picking up the car, he is signalling that his mind is coming back.

Now I see what you mean. And I must say, that it is a very distinct possibility. The car, previously untouched, is now chosen by Jeremiah as he is taken from his room. Like the legos, in the sense that if Linden placed a lego in his construct in the wrong place, Jeremiah would re-place it correctly and then move on. If she placed it in the right place, he nodded his approval and then continued building. Those responses show an awareness of his surroundings. So in a sense Jeremiah knows what is going on around him even though he rarely responds. The car could signify a growing awareness of his circumstances. (As well as a link to reality--if he knew about Mount Thunder and Foul's Creche, then certainly he knew he would be taken to the Land in which they exist, and would need a link to his own world. Which can be construed as his mind coming back.)
In short, based on your representation, and mine, I think that the car could be a symbol of his awareness, as well as a link to his real world.

Of course, I don't buy in to the theory that his mind is in the Land. As I stated several times, if he was in the Land for 3000 years, he'd be all growed up, and would have long ago retired his horsey pajamas. It's a cute, cheap theory that explains the legos...

Yes, it does seem preposterous.
But somehow he is being shown things that exist in the Land. Which means either at times his mind is there, or at times a being from the Land is in his mind.

Finally, if his mind is gone, who is building things?

TKO there!:Z:

I think Jeremiah's mind wasn't ripped out of his body IMHO. Jeremiah is dealing with Ravers in the best way an 8 year old can - by hiding. Hiding in a way that Raver's cannot find you.

This seems logical. I cannot think of a reason why this is not a possibility. It is simple, holds true to the tale, and makes perfect sense. And it does not preclude the possibiility that others have "found" where his mind is hiding.

On an aside: (Another new idea.....with a footnote ) If Joan is the creator of the caesures, which disrupt the sequential Law of Time, perhaps, as shown by his rearrangement of Linden's misplaced legos, Jeremiah is the "fixer" of time. He will rearrange Joan's misplaced time to construct a complete and correct Law. Anything and everything that was the result of a caesure (including Linden's retrieval of the Staff and Anele's appearance 3000 years from his natural time) will be "fixed"...placed back in its proper sequence. Thus dooming the Earth, but saving the Arch.
Jeremiah, contrary to his name, will be the Land's new hero. A passing of the torch from Covenant to Linden to Jeremiah. But he will be doomed to fail. -end of new idea.
.

[Old Darth]

Ur-bane sounds much like what I had posted just above you.

At any rate the red car must tie in with being the key that Jeremiah needs to trace Foul through the Arch of Time.

[ur-bane]

Ur-bane sounds much like what I had posted just above you.

At any rate the red car must tie in with being the key that Jeremiah needs to trace Foul through the Arch of Time.

Ah...Old Darth...my apologies! It is a good thing I had my little footnote refernce (To Wayfriend's post about the possibility of a new idea having been mentioned before.)

When I read your post, I missed the

Linden and Convenant may have some control over the Land and Earthpower, I believe Jeremiah will have abilities useful to the Arch of Time which is the next step that Donaldson will be taking his characters to.

part of it.

We are thinking very much along the same lines, you and I!

[wayfriend]

Ur-bane sounds much like what I had posted just above you.

We are thinking very much along the same lines, you and I!

If the place is a real place, there can be many ways to get there.

[Usivius]

OK I read through all these theories, about the car and Jeremiah, etc. But I guess I am the only one who thinks the sight of Jeremiah and TC is a BAD thing. As soon as it happened (I was expecting TC to show up but not J), I realized (if that word can be used with such cetainty) that this is so wrong. Roger/Lord Foul is not going to just let J slip thorugh his fingers! This is all part of Foul's plan. Perhaps this is not really, or entirley Jeremiah.
i just get the bad feeling this is not going ot be good for Linden. I post this thought on another thread as soon as I finished the book (a few hours ago) and summed it up with this thought:
How do you hurt someone (cause despair) who has lost everything? Give them back something they loved broken....
(man, I really mangled that quote, didn't I?... but you get the idea... )

[wayfriend]

But I guess I am the only one who thinks the sight of Jeremiah and TC is a BAD thing.

Oh, no, I'm in complete agreement here. This is not a good thing, no no no. (If you're curious as to what my theory is, it's in the Mahdoubt topic, and in the "the ending... was that really ..." topic, and the Grass topic.

[Avatar]

Well, I haven't gotten to those topics yet, but I'm in agreement with Usivius. (And you it looks like.) In fact, I was going to quote Usivius' post from another thread (I think it was another thread) about returning something broken. I think it's very apt.

Reading the thread though, I noticed that almost everybody seems to just assume that the TC and Jeremiah who turn up at the end are actually the real thing. Perhaps (drew?) has a point in terms of recognising the falsehood of the supposed J.

All else aside, I'm frankly amazed at how much significance people think this red car has. As I've mentioned in the past, I just don't analyse stories that deeply (not when I read for pleasure anyway).

If there really is any significance in the fact that the "Arch went over the dresser", then it's no wonder these books take so long to write.

I'm probably wrong, but sometimes a description is just a description. It doesn't have to be some immense, hidden foreshadowing.

--Avatar

[garyshirley]

I am just thinking that the hole car issue is or may not be as significant as you all are stating. It is perhaps, in the mind of the boy, a grasp of the reality that his mother want him to be a part of. Or it could be that jeremiah grab the first thing that he say that would be able to tie him to Linden see as how he may of know where this was all going. I have not gotten very far in the Runes yet so I am just stabbing in the dark
Gary

[Stead]

Heya, me again.

I don't think there is anything wrong with 'reading too much" into a book, ecpecially if it's an epic series book like this. (If you think I was reading too much into the text, you should see what people are doing over in Harry Potter fandom-land!)

Half of the fun of books like these is in trying to ferret out the hidden forshadowing and make speculations about what is going to happen.

In all of these books, it seems that the key to understanding what's happening in the Land is to see what's happening to the characters in Reality, because these opening chapters usually set up the dilemmas which will be played out in the fantasy-scape. Therefore, the set-up chapters are a lot more important than just an excuse to get back adventuring in the fantasy world.

The car is definitely going to be more significant than just a prop for Jeremiah to hold so Linden can say: "Oh, he's got the toy car, it must really be him." It's going to have some mythological importance, like a deus ex machina that SRD introduces early, so it can be brought back up later. There will be some kind of symbolic 'chariot' brought in before it's all over that will be a transmutation of the car -- a chariot which can smoothly transverse the Arch in ways that a caesure can not. It might be a person, (TC, Esmer?) or it might be an actual vehicle, but I'm sure it won't 'just' be a prop.

[wayfriend]

The car is definitely going to be more significant than just a prop for Jeremiah to hold so Linden can say: "Oh, he's got the toy car, it must really be him." It's going to have some mythological importance, like a deus ex machina that SRD introduces early, so it can be brought back up later. There will be some kind of symbolic 'chariot' brought in before it's all over that will be a transmutation of the car -- a chariot which can smoothly transverse the Arch in ways that a caesure can not. It might be a person, (TC, Esmer?) or it might be an actual vehicle, but I'm sure it won't 'just' be a prop.

Well, there's a third option, and that's the one that I hold to. It might be a symbolic act that is just a symbolic act. It can be significant, and provide a clue as to what is happening, without ever materializing as a concrete element of the story.