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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:49 am
by shinnok
Aleksandr wrote:Speculation on croyel vs Ravers: There are only three Ravers while (presumably) quite a few croyel. Foul saves the Ravers for truly big jobs. Also, the Ravers are capable of independent ambitions, while we haven't seen that the croyel have such human attitudes. Finally, Linden would perceive a Raver, while the croyel are completely invisible to her health-sense.
Question: When we last saw Jeremiah under Melenkurion Skyweir, he was in bad shape physically, with an unhealed gunshot wound. Is this addressed? How has he survived? Is Linden able to heal him?
Good point. No one else could pull that off.
Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:59 pm
by thewormoftheworld'send
shinnok wrote:Aleksandr wrote:Speculation on croyel vs Ravers: There are only three Ravers while (presumably) quite a few croyel. Foul saves the Ravers for truly big jobs. Also, the Ravers are capable of independent ambitions, while we haven't seen that the croyel have such human attitudes. Finally, Linden would perceive a Raver, while the croyel are completely invisible to her health-sense.
Question: When we last saw Jeremiah under Melenkurion Skyweir, he was in bad shape physically, with an unhealed gunshot wound. Is this addressed? How has he survived? Is Linden able to heal him?
Good point. No one else could pull that off.
Linden had better heal Jeremiah because that kid's powers are the key to solving everything.
organic
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:26 am
by SSCinLA
Hiro wrote:Aleksandr wrote:In other words, in the previous Chrons I felt an organic connection between the world, its (powerful or less so) inhabitants and story. In the Last Chrons, one after another player is yanked on stage while, - to me -, their connection to the Land, its history, and its people, is often strenuous.
Do you maybe mean, "tenuous"?
Anyway, I felt that way in TOT about the whole Brathairrealm sequence. It really didn't connect to the rest of the story, even if it was necessary to explain how TC gets his mind back, leads to the rest of Linden's backstory, and introduces Nom who is crucial in WGW. It reminded me of a line from Monty Python when the show switched skits: "And now for something totally diferent."
In the Second Chronicles, you've got Vain, Sunder, Brinn, Nom, Findail, Picthwife - all great characters.
We also had the Sunbane which was a danger of immense proportions and it all but overwhelms the first two parts of TWL. One lack I find in the Last Chrons is the lack of clear and present danger. Just what the heck is Foul up to?
Tenuous, yes. Thank you.
If I recall correctly the Sandgorgons were briefly mentioned in the First Chrons. And the fact that in TOT they went outside of the Land made the shift to all the places they visited less jarring.
Agreed on the Sunbane!
It seems that a timebomb (Worm) was activated at the end of FR.
I remember so many moons ago when I first read the 2nd chronicles...at that time I felt SRD was going in a strange tangent...anyway, upon re-reading (and re-reading) the flow and harmony of the story made sense.
Just because SRD takes us in directions that we weren't expecting, doesn't mean that it is wrong!
Waiting not so patiently for AATE...
S
Re: organic
Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:52 pm
by Creator
Aleksandr wrote:... One lack I find in the Last Chrons is the lack of clear and present danger. Just what the heck is Foul up to?
hmmmm .... let's see:
The Skurj and the Sandgorgons (influenced by the 'consumed' Raver) have formed an alliance to attack the forests surrounding Andelain.
Roger and Kastenessen are still out there impeding the Land's defense with Kevin's Dirt. And the source of the power for Kevin's Dirt, She-who-must-not-be-named has awoken.
Oh, and the Worm-of-the-worlds-end is approaching the Land, and if it drinks Earthblood the world ends.
Those seem pretty clear and present danger's to me!!
[Not to mention Esmer and Joan and her caesures, but both of them are dead now!
]
Re: organic
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:30 pm
by shinnok
Creator wrote:Aleksandr wrote:... One lack I find in the Last Chrons is the lack of clear and present danger. Just what the heck is Foul up to?
The Skurj and the Sandgorgons (influenced by the 'consumed' Raver) have formed an alliance to attack the forests surrounding Andelain.
Those seem pretty clear and present danger's to me!!
[Not to mention Esmer and Joan and her caesures, but both of them are dead now!
]
I agree - looks pretty dangerous out there. So the Raver is still influencing the Sandgorgons? I thought they would fight the Skurj...I don't know why, seemed logical. Go figure.
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:45 pm
by Creator
So did Linden and her merry band so you are in good company!!
That is what she hoped for - she was mistaken!!
Re: organic
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:06 pm
by DrPaul
shinnok wrote:Creator wrote:Aleksandr wrote:... One lack I find in the Last Chrons is the lack of clear and present danger. Just what the heck is Foul up to?
The Skurj and the Sandgorgons (influenced by the 'consumed' Raver) have formed an alliance to attack the forests surrounding Andelain.
Those seem pretty clear and present danger's to me!!
[Not to mention Esmer and Joan and her caesures, but both of them are dead now!
]
I agree - looks pretty dangerous out there. So the Raver is still influencing the Sandgorgons? I thought they would fight the Skurj...I don't know why, seemed logical. Go figure.
It occurred to me earlier this morning (eastern Australian time) that there would be a natural convergence between the Sandgorgons' affinity for deserts and the Raver's hatred of trees and forests (which as a basic motive would survive in all the Raver fragments in the Sandgorgons).
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:21 pm
by Aleksandr
For those who have read the next book, it sounds like the peril is spelled out a lot more specifically, and diverse threads are being drawn together. That's well and good. But my criticism was directed to the fact that in the 2nd Chrons we had a very clear sense of the peril almost from the start: SRD gave us the Sunbane whose ill was simply overwhelming. After TWL "Soothtell" we pretty much had the whole story of it. And in the 1st Chrons (where of course there was a lot of world-building and stage-setting being done) we also had a sense of things early on: Foul was going to make war on the Lords empowered by the Ill-Earth Stone.
In the 3rd Chrons we've had a lot of disconnected dangers (caesures, Kastenessen, "beware the Halfhand", etc.) and it's been hard to fit them together into a connected whole.
Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:00 pm
by Madadeva
I understand. But I believe this is by design.
In the first two series, the goals were clear from the beginning. In this series, while the quests have goals, the ultimate end is still unknown to the reader. While I find such ambiguity different, it does not lesson the appeal of the story for me.
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:15 am
by shinnok
Chapter 2 is from Linden's perspective - it's very good - no whining. She seems stronger now after all the confrontations that led up to the resurrection.
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:58 am
by shinnok
shinnok wrote:Creator wrote:I believe the Elohim's lover is one of the women absorbed in she-who-must-not-be-named. But the text, IIRC seems to state that Lord Foul is the first betrayer.
Can this have anything to do with the Clave creation story?
In answer to my own question, yes the Clave creation story is definitely in there.
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:35 pm
by Creator
Welcome to the ARC club! Where did you get yours? Get a bargain price?
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:33 pm
by shinnok
Thank you, Creator. I happen to think I got it ridiculously cheap @ less than 100. I like the pace of it so far - it may be my favorite if it continues this way. Kudos to Stephen for creating this Universe and sharing it with us. I will definitely buy both the hard cover and Kindle versions in October.
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:28 am
by Seareach
Madadeva wrote:I understand. But I believe this is by design.
In the first two series, the goals were clear from the beginning. In this series, while the quests have goals, the ultimate end is still unknown to the reader. While I find such ambiguity different, it does not lesson the appeal of the story for me.
Yeah, I agree with that. And I think it is a demonstration of the evolution of SRD's writing style. It's been yonks since I read The Gap series but I think it's closer to that in design than the first and second chronicles. I kinda have no problem with that
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:46 pm
by Creator
DrPaul wrote:Well, obviously we don't know at this stage, but consider the following.
1. Some 8000 years after the Ritual of Desecration, Kevin is still bitter and twisted and hopelessly pessimistic, as evidenced by his response to Linden's resurrection of Covenant.
2. Berek has told Kevin that his crimes have not yet (my emphasis) been truly answered, and strongly hinted that Berek, Damelon and Loric will be making some kind of significant decision about Kevin before the night is over.
3. Quite a lot of the key players are in Andelain, the place to go for resurrections, and the Laws of Death and Life remain broken.
Is it not then plausible that what Kevin's forefathers have in mind is to both give Kevin the opportunity, and impose on him the responsibility, to truly answer his past misdeeds by having him resurrected to become one of Linden's companions and thus play a major part in averting or reversing whatever fate Lord Foul has in mind for the Land and the Earth? ....
In reading the other AATE thread about Kevin. How many feel Kevin is a ... well ... JERK! He has not demonstrated any redeeming qualities. Perhaps the despair that drove him to the Ritual of Desecration (and his dispair after it as a spirit for millenia) have put him beyond redemption.
Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:13 am
by shinnok
I feel he's a jerk. I felt much more for Elena - who believed that old fool could redeem the earth. I think Mhoram is the all-time favorite High Lord.
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:53 pm
by shinnok
I finished the story. I think it may have some of Stephan's best writing - especially when telling the story from Covenant's point of view. The action scenes are awesome and so much is revealed. It's really satisfying to see so many questions answered. Unfortunately, we still won't know if the earth can be saved 'till 2013.
Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:02 pm
by Creator
What did you think about the alliance with the Lurker? That seemed a little ... too convenient to me?
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:29 pm
by shinnok
That was totally unexpected - I hadn't even realized the thing had a consciousness. Maybe we can say the fact that the Worm was coming its way first - from the Sunbirth Sea - spooked it. The cliff hanger at the end kind of makes that point.
But how about Elena? I've had my difficulties with that one.
Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:13 pm
by Creator
It did seem strange that Covenant seemed to 'throw her under the bane bus' so easily.