LOST (SEASON TWO SPOILERS)

Post by **Cagliostro** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:09 pm

dANdeLION wrote:
As for the meaning behind the hatch inhabitants, I'm leanig towards the possibility that they are putting the LOST survivors through an initiation process. Whether othey're angels, devils, spies, or a super-secret French installation, with the military/scientific agenda of finding the country a freaking backbone; I don't know. Time will tell, though.

If they are French, then why does the guy in the hatch have a Scottish accent?

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:34 pm

Because they're undercover agents......sheesh, do I have to think of everything here?

Post by **birdandbear** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:26 pm

Did you guys see the trailer for Serenity that aired during Lost last night?

We were ecstatic, thinking that the people watching the season premier of Lost were the perfect target audience for Serenity advertising...

As for Lost itself....wow!

Who's that guy? And what about the people on the boat?? Gah!! I found what Shannon saw in the woods really chilling, and I hope it's not foreshadowing....

Guess we'll have to wait til next week.

Post by **sindatur** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:35 pm

Well, at Malcom David Kelly's age, if they keep the same actor for Walt, they need to find some way of explaining away the rapid aging. Each season is only 40+/- days of story time, so, even if the show goes on for 9 seasons, walt should only be about 1 year older than when they crashed, but the actor would be a full grown man almost. So, unless there's some fountain of youth, a "wrinkle in time", or a constant changing of actors (for example), Walt needs to die or disappear, so...

I'm not sure Walt's image was just wet with water though, it looks thick, like a syrup, you can especially see this effect when he opened his mouth.

Post by **lurch** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:18 am

...Yea,,I freaked out on LOST. ITS LIKE having a new TCC every week. And in there is the catch to what is going on in LOST.. The Island is like the fantasy world of TC...So what is the REAL world?,,,The real world is a Mental Institute,,Insane Asylum...These lostaways are insane,,lost their identity,,and struggling to re-find themselves.

Yes, each episode begins with the opening eye. The eye is the surreal symbol of the gateway, or window,,to ones interior world. Surrealism is the " intefacing of the interior world and the confining reality world around oneself. Symbols act as a means and meaning to the interior unconscious and subconscious. It is there that Surrealists believe(d),,that the True identity of a human exsists. These folks are trying to find themselves,,because they Lost It..Consider the interior Flashbacks,,,each has a past that is enough to send any ordinary person over the cliff...even the most beautiful Evangiline Lily..any body see the cover of Rolling Stone?,,pics at the EMMYS,,,and Maxims girl of the day...all within one week..!!!,,anyway..
...These folks are nuts..thats why all the children keep getting taken away from them..Child Custody Services ya know...The Others..the asylum Staff...The whisperers,,classic paranoia...The MONSTER..careful now...that which they must deal with,,,face off with..inorder to achieve the cathartic moment..the moment of started healing...Locke has had his moment..hes still nuts..but he is getting better..All the rest keep running away , screaming and hiding in the trees. They Need to face The Monster..By doing so , the will have the ability to shed the confining reality ,,let it go, free themselves to be the true humanbeing they are meant to be.
,,,Check it out..jack's growing despair,,he is slowly spiraling down the tube of despair..in a fantasy land called the Island...again..the amazing similarities between TCC and Lost...In the real world,,all of 'em are in the Looney Bin...I think..this desmond character is a very Insane individual..he had his own private Padded Cell..He thinks, hes the Devil...or....he mite be the Hospitals Head Doctor,,or administrator..He , like the Devil may be offering a deal or two to these nut cases. We'll see.
...BTW..none of the folks who have died...did not in reality die... They left the island, the asylum..but did not die. Boone,,what did he do rite before his ."accident"?,,,He made contact with the Real World...His ticket off the island...Arts,, the science teacher...He verified the Truth of his science and has been dismissed from the island ( one of the greatest visual metaphors I've seen on network TV),,Stay Well Artz!...Claire was missing for 4 days,," I can't remember what they did to me!",,,yeppers,,a successful electro shock treatment,,maybe even a Frontal Lobotomy,,,after she went " hysterical" when they came to take her kid away from her,,,and while I'm there..yea,,Charlie and Claire and their peanut butter,,,the extra NUTTY peaNUT butter...C'mon..polar bears in the Jungle,,BONKERS!! They are insane and the island is reality as seen thru a insane mind. Much delusion that really makes no sense..but the fans,,insists that their is a hidden meaning..the numbers,,the sickness..etc,,etc, .

Lost is a tale of Despair and Hope,,,truth and lies...what we believ and what we know..all the Polarities of Life..but,,
...." Lost will not be found in the Show. Each Episode makes the Extremes Obvious. LOST is found in all the gray matter between the BLack and White
presented........"...Any question on Lost can be answered by realizing that they are really in a Insane Asylum and the Island is their fantasy world...MEL

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:20 pm

AHHHHHH!! Two weeks into the season, and it just gets better! I can't stand it!

Post by **aTOMiC** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:32 pm

LOST episode 2, season 2. The story was very entertaining and filled the hour episode very nicely indeed. The magic trick pulled was that episode 2 only furthered the chronology of the story by about 5 seconds from the previous installment. Well done.

Post by **caamora** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:10 pm

Ok. I have never watched Lost but I hear it is all the rage. I missed the first season and although I have gone on the websites and tried to figure out what the basic premise of the story is, I am not having any luck.

What is the general plot?

I want to know before I decide to watch. Or am I too late to even try?

Are there going to be repeats of the first episode of the second season?

Post by **caamora** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:10 pm

Ok. I have never watched Lost but I hear it is all the rage. I missed the first season and although I have gone on the websites and tried to figure out what the basic premise of the story is, I am not having any luck.

What is the general plot?

I want to know before I decide to watch. Or am I too late to even try?

Are there going to be repeats of the first episode of the second season?

Post by **caamora** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:11 pm

Sorry, pressed the submit button one too many times.

Post by **sindatur** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:48 pm

Caamora, I would get caught up on Season 1 first through buying the DVDs or Netflix. Trying to jump on board without Season 1, I just don't think will do the show or you any justice. Right after November Sweeps they will likely repeat Season 2 (No guarantees exactly when, but, this is my assumption). Currently they are showing the episodes twice each week (Or maybe start recording, Ep 2 should be repeated either Saturday, or Weds at 8 before Ep 3 at 9, and then Saturday is the second airing through at least ep 5)

Oh, the general Plot.

A plane crashes at the beginning of the Pilot, and you slowly learn about the island they are on. Lots of character development shown through flashbacks of the characters prior to their plane trip.

Not really sure what else to tell you, without spoiling, because telling you anymore of the plot, reveals some of the mysteries.

Post by **caamora** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:51 pm

Check.

Do you think the DVD's can be rented at Blockbuster?

Post by **sindatur** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:44 am

It's a possibility.

Post by **lurch** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:58 pm

..Camm..If all else fails,,i have DVD of 1st season..perhaps we can meet after all. yes, its a bit difficult to pick up on season 2 without seeing season 1. Season 1 was a "foundation" to these characters..who they are and the begining of their "background". ..The INDIVIDUAL....Season 2 has begun to explore the relationship between the Individual and Society,

BTW,,did anybody count how many times in the first 2 episodes the word "crazy" was used? Talk about clues!...

Episode 2 was a reitteration of events of epi 1 but thru different eyes. The point being..each was different. ..The Surrealist main mantra is..Truth cannot be found in reality. The untrustworthyness of reality,,the subjectivety of reality ,,was well demonstrated in epi 2. The raft scenes with the on going arguement between mike and sawyer,,was all about who's version of events was real. The fite between Mike and The Mother of his son,,was a demonstration of Versions of reality..the lawyer blew mikes identity as "The Father" rite out of the water. Great metaphor with the Shark/ Lawyer don't you think?

But consider what really happened on the raft and in the conference room with the Mother,,and yes,,even in the hatch between Locke, Kate and Desmond.Consider the BIG LIE,,,The Big Lie is a propoganda device used to convince, persuade, and hold allegiance. The Big Lie..is when a Larger Lie is bargained away inorder to get the opponent to settle for a Lesser Lie.or vis versa....Mike did that as persuaded by the Lawyer Mother.".I can't win in court ,,but."..See what I mean.?..Mike and Sawyer arguing over which version of reality was rite..who was at fault,,demonstrated the insanity of the Big Lie..Locke , giving up Kate,,same o..."What are you doing?..it s for the greater good !..(approx),,yet she was still tied up. See what I am saying?

Now to tie it all together...The Surrealists did not trust the Leaders of Society,,politicians, kings queens and the elite..afterall,,they led all the societies of the world into WW1,,with the repetitive use of the Big Lie. A society that would do that to their citizenery,,is a false society, they surmised. The Surrealist with a heavy dependence on the Freud/Jung psychoanalytical,,put forth the idea,,that Truth cannot be found in reality. Reality is too subjective..Society is too easily manipulated. Truth can be found at the intersection of the Interior world and the confining reality around.(Truth is a Very personal thing)..At the beginning of most episodes of Lost,,we see the Eye opening up..That is the intersection of a mans interior world and the world around him..Classic surreal Symbol.,,So the questions surfaced in season 2 seem to be...Just how much of the big lie do we buy into in our dailey existance?...Where do we draw the line and make our proclamations of " Its My Fault, and I WILL get my son back?"..How much of ourselves do we " give up for the greater Good" and how much of ourselves and our time,,is spent escaping the clutches of the world of materialism and chocolate bars?..or are we totally hook lined and sinkered into a false reality like Desmond.?....
...The Surrealist's main question and Losts main question is..Who Am I?
Interesting to note,,that Desmond and his DHarma reality,,corporate and material world,,can't even get the question right..Are You Him?..Talk about the Big Lie huh?........MEL

Post by **sgt.null** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:22 am

caamora: our Blockbuster just put season one on the shelf. call your local and ask if they, or one in your area has them.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 3:45 pm

Wow, Lurch, you blow me away with your posts. I mean it as no insult that your analysis sounds like someone from the insane asylum, speaking bits of truth wrapped around their own fractured subjective filters. I think somewhere in there, you have touced upon something real. I love the idea of the eye as a symbol for the intersection of inner and outer worlds. I love the idea of Desmond being the one who is living within his own subjective illusion (the "hatch"). I just hope that the writers of this show are as insightful as you are, and have intentionally written Lost with these connections. Desmond's question, "The world is still out there?" could imply just this connotation. At first I thought of it in terms of the geopolitical world being destroyed by some sort of imagined catastrophy. But now I think you may be right. He is in his own solipsistic bunker, and shocked by the idea that an external world might still exist. [The word, "quarantine," is written on the INSIDE, of the hatch door, which means that it is the rest of the world outside which has been quarantined.]

Did anyone notice the symbol on the shark? It's the same symbol as the one on Desmond's uniform and also seen in his "bunker." I've seen screen shots of this octagonal symbol, and in the middle there is the word, "Dharma." Lurch, you used this word in your analysis. Care to eleborate?

I read this on a quick Google search: "The path to enlightenment is really very simple - all we need to do is stop cherishing ourself and learn to cherish others. All other spiritual realizations will naturally follow from this." Thus, given that Desmond is wrapped up in his solipsisitic bunker, then this is an apt diagnosis of his problem.

I'm not sure about your claim that Boone touched "reality" or the external world. When he made his broadcast in the drug runners' plane, he said, "We're the survivors of flight 815." The response back was, "No,
we're the survivors of flight 815." Unless the reality is that they didn't actually survive, I'm not sure how the response can be more real. We'll have to wait and see.

John Locke, as you may know, was an empiricist philosopher. He started the empiricist movement, which was historically opposed to the rationalist movement. The character, John Locke, is portrayed as a man of faith as opposed to the man of science, Jack. I dismissed the philosopher origins of his name because I didn't at first see a connection between faith and philosophical empiricism. But now I'm thinking that there might be a connection. Locke, the philospher, held that knowledge comes from experience (not reason), and that the mind is a "blank slate" (tabula rasa--which, strangely, was the name of episode 1.2, KATE's episode, not Locke's. Was this misdirection? Or is Kate tied to Locke's empiricist agenda? After all, she did go into the Hatch with him, and he said, "I was waiting for you.") Locke, the philosopher, said that knowledge isn't a priori, rational truths, but instead something that is discovered through experience. Where this gets confusing in reference to Lost is that science is an empirical enterprise, which seems to be Jack's area of expertise [but ABC.com describes episode 2.1 as part of Jack's journey from a man of science into a man of faith.] Also, the historical movement of empiricism spiralled into skepticism as David Hume took up the empiricist torch (which could be where John Locke is heading as he penetrates deeper into the solisistic underpinnings of empiricism--i.e., exploring the Hatch).

The more I think about your ideas, the more I like them. After all, the chief foes for the Lostians are the "Others." One of the biggest problems for a strict, naive realism, is the problem of other minds. And the reverse situation, the problems for solispisism, is the reality of others external to you. Episode 1.9 was called, "solitary," Sayeed's first episode. This is when he meets Rouseau (another enlightment, philosopher, though I'll have to thing about his connections). In this episode, Solitary, we first learn about the Others. The next episode, 1.10, is called, "Raised by Another." I thought at first this referenced the plot point that Claire shouldn't let anyone else raise her baby, but perhaps this means, Raised by an Other, as in other mind. This could explain the significance of the Others wanting children: other minds are what originally "rescue" us from our native solipsism of the womb and pre-lingual or pre-experiental world. [More to come. I'll post as I learn more]

Good work Lurch. Keep 'em coming!

Post by **Zarathustra** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:30 pm

Desmond could be a play on the name, Descartes, the classic Doubter who speculated that we cannot know that anything beyond our own mind exists.

The more I think about it, the more Desmond seems to be a symbol for solipsism, the idea that the only thing that exists is one's own mind and experiences, and the external world is an illusion. The Hatch is the mind--that's why it's full of computers. That's why he uses mirrors to look around, because he is always just looking at himself (just as Descartes proposed using introspection as a means of philosophical investigation in his Meditations). And what is his "theme" song?

"But you've gotta make your own kind of music
Sing your own special song
Make your own kind of music
Even if nobody else sings along

You're gonna be nowhere
The loneliest kind of lonely
It may be rough going
Just to do your thing's the hardest thing to do"

Post by **sindatur** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:18 pm

In regards to "No, we're the survivors from flight 815. We know Michelle ROdriguez' character Ana Lucia was in the back of the plane, in row 42. And we know from the previews this week that the raft folks run into her, so, that's most likely who that message came from.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:44 am

Crap, so the whole thing is an experiment. I'm disappointed. I was hoping for more. But then, I'm sure they've got more twists for us.

There seem to be no Others. They are just other members of the plane crash, from the tail section. The black guy is probably the husband of Rose (the black woman who was so sure her husband was still alive in the first season). This seems to fit with my ideas that the others aren't really as dangerous as we were led to believe, that their significance is more symbolic than literal.

Post by **sgt.null** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:07 am

Malik: there may be two groups at play here. the survivors from the tail section. and the black guy is to young to be Rose's husband, no? and the others on the boat.

the Lost: Jack and his crew.

the Lord of the Flies Lost: Rodriguez and her crew.

the Others: lighter of fires and keeper of boats.

free agents: french chick, Desmond.

it seems that LotF group doesn't know who Michael, Sawyer and Jin are. the boat folks knew them and stole the kid. does leave the question of who Ethan is.

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LOST (SEASON TWO SPOILERS)

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