Good one! This is saying a lot, too, since Division Bell is about divorce (isn't it?) I admit to not having studied the lyrics closely--given the absence of Waters I just didn't care as much. But I always thought Division Bell was a contrast to a "wedding bell."dANdeLION wrote:You two are so wrong! Final Cut is the weakest post-Dark Side cd, hands down. The Wall is a masterpiece, as were Wish and Animals. The only crime Momentary ans Division can be accused of is they weren't nearly as depressing without Waters as they would have been with him.
Pink Floyd fans: I'm going to go out on a limb...
Moderators: StevieG, dANdeLION, lucimay
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Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
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dANdeLION
- Lord
- Posts: 23836
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- Location: In the jungle, the mighty jungle
- Contact:
Heh, I always assumed that a division bell would be the bell that rings between classes...but then again, I'm being literal, while you've probably caught the true meaning behind it.
Dandelion don't tell no lies
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion
I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.
High priest of THOOOTP
*
* This post carries Jay's seal of approval
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion
I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.
High priest of THOOOTP
* * This post carries Jay's seal of approval
-
Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19842
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1 time
Everyone's high but dAN. As much as I love Animals, The Wall is clearly the best thing the band ever did. Dave's counterpoint solos on Comfortably Numb (the peaceful, pastoral middle solo and the furiously angry outro) are some of the best guitar ever recorded.
Waters was/is gifted in his own way, but I find his writing to be incredibly one-dimensional, and he's a shite musician (comparatively speaking). I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here in paticular, but I've found that most people who write off MLoR and DB are Waters fans who won't give the albums a fair listen.
I'll say it again, I think MLoR, DB, and About Face are far superior to anything Waters has done post-PF.
Edit-And the reason (I think) for that is that Waters's solo efforts have basically been to re-release The Final Cut over and over again with different musicians.
There doesn't need to be some deep, heavy theme in order for a PF album to be considered a real PF album. That was Waters's thing, not Syd's or David's.
Waters was/is gifted in his own way, but I find his writing to be incredibly one-dimensional, and he's a shite musician (comparatively speaking). I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here in paticular, but I've found that most people who write off MLoR and DB are Waters fans who won't give the albums a fair listen.
I'll say it again, I think MLoR, DB, and About Face are far superior to anything Waters has done post-PF.
Edit-And the reason (I think) for that is that Waters's solo efforts have basically been to re-release The Final Cut over and over again with different musicians.
There doesn't need to be some deep, heavy theme in order for a PF album to be considered a real PF album. That was Waters's thing, not Syd's or David's.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Agreed, on both accounts.sgtnull wrote:the Division is a great band album. Rick Wright was sorely missed.
As said by Roger himself, in a way.the Final Cut was the Wall leftovers.
(That's why when The Final Cut was released, we nicknamed it The Wall, Part 2)
Have you hugged your arghule today?
________________________________________
"For millions of years
mankind lived just like the animals.
Then something happened
that unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk."
________________________________________
If PRO and CON are opposites,
then the opposite of PROgress must be...
_______________________________________
It's 4:19...
gotta minute?
________________________________________
"For millions of years
mankind lived just like the animals.
Then something happened
that unleashed the power of our imagination -
we learned to talk."
________________________________________
If PRO and CON are opposites,
then the opposite of PROgress must be...
_______________________________________
It's 4:19...
gotta minute?
-
Lord Mhoram
- Lord
- Posts: 9512
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:07 am
Oh it's definitely The Wall, Part II (although "outtakes" doesn't really apply, except I think the title track and "Your Possible Pasts" were slated to be on The Wall originally), I just think that Waters expands on the themes he'd explored on that album and improved them on The Final Cut.
By the way, found a great review of the album. Basically sums up my opinions on it:
(5/5 stars)
This may be art rock's crowning masterpiece, but it is also something more. With The Final Cut, Pink Floyd caps its career in classic form, and leader Roger Waters–for whom the group has long since become little more than a pseudonym–finally steps out from behind the "Wall" where last we left him. The result is essentially a Roger Waters solo album, and it's a superlative achievement on several levels. Not since Bob Dylan's "Masters of War" twenty years ago has a popular artist unleashed upon the world political order a moral contempt so corrosively convincing, or a life-loving hatred so bracing and brilliantly sustained. Dismissed in the past as a mere misogynist, a ranting crank, Waters here finds his focus at last, and with it a new humanity. And with the departure of keyboardist Richard Wright and his synthesizers–and the advent of a new "holophonic" recording technique–the music has taken on deep, mahogany-hued tones, mainly provided by piano, harmonium and real strings. The effect of these internal shifts is all the more exhilarating for being totally unexpected. By comparison, in almost every way, The Wall was only a warm-up.
The Final Cut began as a modest expansion upon the soundtrack of the film version of The Wall, with a few new songs added and its release scheduled for the latter half of 1982. In the interim, however, the movie, a grotesquely misconceived collaboration between Waters and director Alan Parker, was released to a general thud of incomprehension. Around the same time, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, irked by the unseemly antics of an Argentine despot, dispatched British troops halfway around the world to fight and die for the Falkland Islands.
That event, coming in the wake of his failed film statement, apparently stirred Waters to an artistic epiphany. Out of the jumbled obsessions of the original Wall album, he fastened on one primal and unifying obsession: the death of his father in the battle of Anzio in 1944. Thus, on The Final Cut, a child's inability to accept the loss of the father he never knew has become the grown man's refusal to accept the death politics that decimate each succeeding generation and threaten ever more clearly with each passing year to ultimately extinguish us all.
The album is dedicated to the memory of the long-lost Eric Fletcher Waters, and in one of its most memorable moments, his now-middle-aged son bitterly envisions a "Fletcher Memorial Home for incurable tyrants and kings," one and all welcome, be they pompous butchers in comic-opera uniforms or smug statesmen in expensive suits. He presents a ghastly processional: "... please welcome Reagan and Haig/Mr. Begin and friend, Mrs. Thatcher and Paisley/Mr. Brezhnev and party.... And," he coos, "now adding color, a group of anonymous Latin American meat packing glitterati." With these "colonial wasters of life and limb" duly assembled, Waters inquires, with ominous delicacy: "Is everyone in?/Are you having a nice time?/Now the final solution can be applied."
As fantasy, this has a certain primordial appeal. But Waters realizes that all the Neanderthals will never be blown away. What concerns him more is the inexplicable extent of fighting in the world when there seems so little left to defend. In "The Gunners Dream," a dying airman hopes to the end that his death will be in the service of "the postwar dream," for which the album stands as a requiem–the hope for a society that offers "a place to stay/enough to eat," where "no one ever disappears ... and maniacs don't blow holes in bandsmen by remote control." But Waters, looking around him more than thirty-five years after the war's end, can only ask: "Is it for this that daddy died?"
In the past, Waters might have dismissed the gunner's dream as an empty illusion from the outset. Instead, though, Waters insists on honoring his sacrifice: "We cannot just write off his final scene/Take heed of his dream/Take heed." Without a commitment to some objective values, he seems to say, we sink into a brutalizing xenophobia – an "I'm all right, Jack" condition explored with considerable brilliance in the withering "Not Now John." In that song, the deepest human truths are cast aside in a frenzy "to compete with the wily Japanese": "There's too many home fires burning/And not enough trees/So f**k all that/We've got to get on with these."
With a Sixties-style soul-chick chorus bleating "F**k all that!" in the background, and guitarist David Gilmour pile-driving power chords throughout, "Not Now John" qualifies as one of the most ferocious performances Pink Floyd has ever put on record. In the context of The Final Cut, it is something of an oddity; for while the music has an innate architectural power that pulls one ever deeper into the album's conceptual design, the performances and production are generally distinguished by their restraint–even the fabled Floydian sound effects are reduced to the occasional ticking clock or whooshing bomber. Attention is mostly devoted to the music's human textures: the gorgeous saxophone solos of Raphael Ravenscroft, Ray Cooper's thundering percussion, shimmering string washes, the sometimes gospel-tinged piano of Michael Kamen (who coproduced the album with Waters and James Guthrie) and, on every track, the most passionate and detailed singing that Waters has ever done.
Whether this will be their last album as a group (the official word is no, but Wright is apparently gone for good, and even the faithful Nick Mason relinquishes his drum chair on one cut to session player Andy Newmark) is not as compelling a question as where Waters will go with what appears to be a new-found freedom. He plans to record a solo album for his next project, and one hopes that just the novelty of becoming a full-fledged human will be enough to keep him profitably occupied for many years to come. (RS 393)
KURT LODER
www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/107472/the_final_cut
By the way, found a great review of the album. Basically sums up my opinions on it:
(5/5 stars)
This may be art rock's crowning masterpiece, but it is also something more. With The Final Cut, Pink Floyd caps its career in classic form, and leader Roger Waters–for whom the group has long since become little more than a pseudonym–finally steps out from behind the "Wall" where last we left him. The result is essentially a Roger Waters solo album, and it's a superlative achievement on several levels. Not since Bob Dylan's "Masters of War" twenty years ago has a popular artist unleashed upon the world political order a moral contempt so corrosively convincing, or a life-loving hatred so bracing and brilliantly sustained. Dismissed in the past as a mere misogynist, a ranting crank, Waters here finds his focus at last, and with it a new humanity. And with the departure of keyboardist Richard Wright and his synthesizers–and the advent of a new "holophonic" recording technique–the music has taken on deep, mahogany-hued tones, mainly provided by piano, harmonium and real strings. The effect of these internal shifts is all the more exhilarating for being totally unexpected. By comparison, in almost every way, The Wall was only a warm-up.
The Final Cut began as a modest expansion upon the soundtrack of the film version of The Wall, with a few new songs added and its release scheduled for the latter half of 1982. In the interim, however, the movie, a grotesquely misconceived collaboration between Waters and director Alan Parker, was released to a general thud of incomprehension. Around the same time, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, irked by the unseemly antics of an Argentine despot, dispatched British troops halfway around the world to fight and die for the Falkland Islands.
That event, coming in the wake of his failed film statement, apparently stirred Waters to an artistic epiphany. Out of the jumbled obsessions of the original Wall album, he fastened on one primal and unifying obsession: the death of his father in the battle of Anzio in 1944. Thus, on The Final Cut, a child's inability to accept the loss of the father he never knew has become the grown man's refusal to accept the death politics that decimate each succeeding generation and threaten ever more clearly with each passing year to ultimately extinguish us all.
The album is dedicated to the memory of the long-lost Eric Fletcher Waters, and in one of its most memorable moments, his now-middle-aged son bitterly envisions a "Fletcher Memorial Home for incurable tyrants and kings," one and all welcome, be they pompous butchers in comic-opera uniforms or smug statesmen in expensive suits. He presents a ghastly processional: "... please welcome Reagan and Haig/Mr. Begin and friend, Mrs. Thatcher and Paisley/Mr. Brezhnev and party.... And," he coos, "now adding color, a group of anonymous Latin American meat packing glitterati." With these "colonial wasters of life and limb" duly assembled, Waters inquires, with ominous delicacy: "Is everyone in?/Are you having a nice time?/Now the final solution can be applied."
As fantasy, this has a certain primordial appeal. But Waters realizes that all the Neanderthals will never be blown away. What concerns him more is the inexplicable extent of fighting in the world when there seems so little left to defend. In "The Gunners Dream," a dying airman hopes to the end that his death will be in the service of "the postwar dream," for which the album stands as a requiem–the hope for a society that offers "a place to stay/enough to eat," where "no one ever disappears ... and maniacs don't blow holes in bandsmen by remote control." But Waters, looking around him more than thirty-five years after the war's end, can only ask: "Is it for this that daddy died?"
In the past, Waters might have dismissed the gunner's dream as an empty illusion from the outset. Instead, though, Waters insists on honoring his sacrifice: "We cannot just write off his final scene/Take heed of his dream/Take heed." Without a commitment to some objective values, he seems to say, we sink into a brutalizing xenophobia – an "I'm all right, Jack" condition explored with considerable brilliance in the withering "Not Now John." In that song, the deepest human truths are cast aside in a frenzy "to compete with the wily Japanese": "There's too many home fires burning/And not enough trees/So f**k all that/We've got to get on with these."
With a Sixties-style soul-chick chorus bleating "F**k all that!" in the background, and guitarist David Gilmour pile-driving power chords throughout, "Not Now John" qualifies as one of the most ferocious performances Pink Floyd has ever put on record. In the context of The Final Cut, it is something of an oddity; for while the music has an innate architectural power that pulls one ever deeper into the album's conceptual design, the performances and production are generally distinguished by their restraint–even the fabled Floydian sound effects are reduced to the occasional ticking clock or whooshing bomber. Attention is mostly devoted to the music's human textures: the gorgeous saxophone solos of Raphael Ravenscroft, Ray Cooper's thundering percussion, shimmering string washes, the sometimes gospel-tinged piano of Michael Kamen (who coproduced the album with Waters and James Guthrie) and, on every track, the most passionate and detailed singing that Waters has ever done.
Whether this will be their last album as a group (the official word is no, but Wright is apparently gone for good, and even the faithful Nick Mason relinquishes his drum chair on one cut to session player Andy Newmark) is not as compelling a question as where Waters will go with what appears to be a new-found freedom. He plans to record a solo album for his next project, and one hopes that just the novelty of becoming a full-fledged human will be enough to keep him profitably occupied for many years to come. (RS 393)
KURT LODER
www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/107472/the_final_cut
Wow, I'd forgotten Kurt Loder had been a tool for that long.
Look, I'm a huge PF fan, and I have been for decades, but The Final Cut, while a decent album (even though the original sound quality sucked) is certainly not the masterpiece that everyone makes it out to be.
These are leftover songs for cryin' out loud.
Look, I'm a huge PF fan, and I have been for decades, but The Final Cut, while a decent album (even though the original sound quality sucked) is certainly not the masterpiece that everyone makes it out to be.
These are leftover songs for cryin' out loud.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Cail wrote:Wow, I'd forgotten Kurt Loder had been a tool for that long.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
-
dANdeLION
- Lord
- Posts: 23836
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:22 am
- Location: In the jungle, the mighty jungle
- Contact:
Heh, I was beginning to think Kurt Loder was Roger Water's moms pen name.....
Dandelion don't tell no lies
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion
I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.
High priest of THOOOTP
*
* This post carries Jay's seal of approval
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion
I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.
High priest of THOOOTP
* * This post carries Jay's seal of approval
Even Waters' mother would like him to write about something new.
On another note, I picked up the Pulse DVD yesterday, and it confirms what some people have said here (including me). It's a good show, but it pales in comparison to the first tour in 1988. I have an ancient VHS copy of that show, and I really hope they digitally remaster that one too.
That said, buy the Pulse DVD now. Dave's playing is jaw-dropping.
And to bring this back to topic (and to take yet another swipe at Roger), Anyone who thinks it ceased to be Pink Floyd after he quit the band, needs to remember that The Final Cut isn't a bona fide Pink Floyd record (by that standard) because Rick Wright isn't on it. The band evolved. Syd left, and the band moved on. This was a good thing in the grand scheme, 'cause I wouldn't be the PF fan I am if I'd been listening to Arnold Layne for the last 30 years. The band evolved yet again on DSotM, and again on Animals when Roger's ego took over the band (even though Dave was still the voice of the band). They evolved one last time when Roger quit, and I think that was a good thing too.
On another note, I picked up the Pulse DVD yesterday, and it confirms what some people have said here (including me). It's a good show, but it pales in comparison to the first tour in 1988. I have an ancient VHS copy of that show, and I really hope they digitally remaster that one too.
That said, buy the Pulse DVD now. Dave's playing is jaw-dropping.
And to bring this back to topic (and to take yet another swipe at Roger), Anyone who thinks it ceased to be Pink Floyd after he quit the band, needs to remember that The Final Cut isn't a bona fide Pink Floyd record (by that standard) because Rick Wright isn't on it. The band evolved. Syd left, and the band moved on. This was a good thing in the grand scheme, 'cause I wouldn't be the PF fan I am if I'd been listening to Arnold Layne for the last 30 years. The band evolved yet again on DSotM, and again on Animals when Roger's ego took over the band (even though Dave was still the voice of the band). They evolved one last time when Roger quit, and I think that was a good thing too.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
i don't give a rat's ass about The Final Cut.
i'm a confirmed Roger Waters fan and will always be.
and i still don't think Pink Floyd is Pink Floyd without Waters
i don't care if you (the general you) thinks Gilmour is a better
musician.
i don't care if Gilmour is a better singer.
i don't even care if someone thinks Gilmour is better LOOKING.
i'm a Roger Waters fan. no one has yet convinced me NOT to be.
nor has anyone convincingly illustrated that Floyd was BETTER OFF without Waters.
so there.
i'm a confirmed Roger Waters fan and will always be.
and i still don't think Pink Floyd is Pink Floyd without Waters
i don't care if you (the general you) thinks Gilmour is a better
musician.
i don't care if Gilmour is a better singer.
i don't even care if someone thinks Gilmour is better LOOKING.
i'm a Roger Waters fan. no one has yet convinced me NOT to be.
nor has anyone convincingly illustrated that Floyd was BETTER OFF without Waters.
so there.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
-
dANdeLION
- Lord
- Posts: 23836
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 3:22 am
- Location: In the jungle, the mighty jungle
- Contact:
Pulse is great; Guy Pratt plays bass on it, and he's much better than Waters.
Dandelion don't tell no lies
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion
I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.
High priest of THOOOTP
*
* This post carries Jay's seal of approval
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion
I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.
High priest of THOOOTP
* * This post carries Jay's seal of approval
Haven't you seen his blog? He can't freakin' stand you.....Lucimay wrote:i'm a Roger Waters fan. no one has yet convinced me NOT to be.
Hmmmmm.....Outsold all of Waters' solo albums (combined), played to 20 times more people than the KAOS tour.Lucimay wrote:nor has anyone convincingly illustrated that Floyd was BETTER OFF without Waters.
But seriously....
I never said they were better off, though I think they were. Floyd was in a rut, and I think the direction they took post Waters was a good one.
But then again I'm a musician, so I do care that Dave is the better musician and better singer. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with prefering Roger to Dave (even though it makes baby Jesus cry), nor am I saying that Roger sucks.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
-
Lord Mhoram
- Lord
- Posts: 9512
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:07 am
Cail wrote:But then again I'm a musician, so I do care that Dave is the better musician and better singer.
i'm a musician. what's that got to do with the price of eggs in italy.
you saying your opinion is more VALID than mine? i hope you're not saying that your opinion is more valid than mine. i'm just as certain as i can BE that you would never imagine that you could say to me that your opinion is more valid than mine.
cause you know...i've still got your PHONE NUMBER in my cell phone and i could think of eighteen million ways to TORTURE you with it.
and i'm kinda crazy like that sometimes.just ask dAN. heh.
Last edited by lucimay on Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
No, Kurt Loder is a tool, was a tool, and always will be a smarmy, pretentious, self-important tool regardless of any review he writes.
Oh, and by the way, record sales and tour tickets do make an artist better off, which is what Luci and I said (not better).
Oh, and by the way, record sales and tour tickets do make an artist better off, which is what Luci and I said (not better).
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Lord Mhoram
- Lord
- Posts: 9512
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:07 am
You seemed to imply that Loder was a tool because of the review he wrote. *shrug* I don't know a whole lot about him. My mistake about the record sales comment, but I'm pretty sure that the In the Flesh tour was on a larger scale than any of the post-Waters Floyd ones. He did two world tours for that, I'm pretty sure. As for it being a masterpiece, that's my opinion, and apart from Mr Loder of Rolling Stone, I've never seen that opinion expressed elsewhere. Even that magazine itself doesn't seem to agree - TFC wasn't in their "500 Greatest Albums of All Time." But then again, neither was Animals, and there were no PF albums in the the top 25.