Pink Floyd fans: I'm going to go out on a limb...

[Lord Mhoram]

...and say that The Final Cut is, in my opinion, after much deliberation, their best record by far. The orchestration and strings are solid, the Gilmour solos are few and far between but always strong, Waters' singing has never been more passionate, and the lyrics are fiery and profound on a level beyond any other Pink Floyd record. It is quite an achievement, and I think it gets bad press for being a "Waters solo record."

Discuss.

[The Laughing Man]

Downloading Not Now John right now! Thanx, LM! I had forgotten all about that album, and agree it was one of their finest. (I bought the cassette, and cd, and lost both if anyone has any objections )

[Lord Mhoram]

No problem. You might want to pick up the 2004 reissue; it has a song called "When The Tigers Broke Free" that wasn't on the original album, and the rest of the tracks are remastered. Stunning.

[sgt.null]

while among my favorites I would vote for Dark Side. having said that, the Gunner's Dream and Two SUns are amazing. I find John too jarring and could live with dropping it. the album would be more cohesive. just like Water's Hitchiking solo.

[Cail]

Didn't realize it'd been remastered, 'cause the original CD release was horrible.

Well, it is a Waters solo record, but it's still very, very good. I'll still listen to Animals before it, though.

[Lord Mhoram]

Yeah Animals is vastly underrated I think.

sgt,

Do you like Hitchhiking? You're right, it's kind of sprawling, but I always rather liked it. I read a scathing review of it in Rolling Stone - 1 out of 5 stars. One of the worst reviews I've ever read in that magazine. Ouch.

[dANdeLION]

I think this comes down to the age of the listener...for me, Wish You Were Here is the best, the Wall and Animals right there with it, and Dark Side a really close third. But I was a teenager when the Wall came out, so those are the albums I heard the most.

[Cail]

Heresy, I know, but....I can't stand Dark Side.

Well, that's not entirely true, but I don't think it's the masterpiece everyone makes it out to be. I think Wish You Were Here, Animals, and The Wall are all vastly superior.

[Lord Mhoram]

Well, Dark Side really changed what I thought pop music could be - it challenged my idea of song structure, length, introduced non-linear lyrics, strange sound effects, long instrumentals. I think it really is a masterpiece. Wish You Were Here is a lesser album, I think, but I respect its tightness, and every single one of the songs is truly great. The Wall is fantastic - but it's sprawling, and there are some weaker tunes. But I think it's got to be one of the best concept albums of all time.

The reason I think The Final Cut is their best is because it takes the lyrical adventure Waters began on Dark Side, the cohesiveness of Wish, and the themes Waters began to explore on The Wall, and combines them into what I think is their best achievement.

[dANdeLION]

Well, I think I'm gonna get it, because my memory of it is getting hazy....

[Cail]

Well, Dark Side really changed what I thought pop music could be - it challenged my idea of song structure, length, introduced non-linear lyrics, strange sound effects, long instrumentals. I think it really is a masterpiece.

All true. It definitely is a groundbreaking album from a production standpoint alone. I just have difficulty listening to it.

Someone, could've been either Nick Mason or Dave Gilmour, once said that the only thing Waters could write about (well) was insanity and depression. I tend to agree. I really haven't enjoyed more than a handfull of Waters's solo songs, but I absolutely love Gilmour's solo stuff (especially About Face), Momentary Lapse, and The Division Bell.

But no argument that they were better together than either one is by themselves.

[wayfriend]

I don't know, Cail. I consider Amused to Death is a masterwork, and as a Waters effort I think it rivals anything Floyd did (although it is also very, very different). It also shows that Waters has another side -- a cynical, liberal side, mind - but another side nonetheless.

Then again, I can't get into old Floyd, what some would call real Floyd, which is pre-Dark Side. Don't know why, as I have no problem with old Who, old Kinks, old Stones, etc. Maybe I'm not freakie enough.

Love Dark Side, Wish You Were Here, The Wall. Have Final Cut, don't like it much either. (I do have a bootleg Waters concert where he peformed a lot of 'Cut amazingly, which I got before the CD, so maybe that killed it for me.)

Saw the new Floyd twice. The Delicate Sound concert blew me away. The Division Bell concert really let me down after that ... wasn't worth standing in piss on the stadium floor to see, I guess.

[Lord Mhoram]

I had Gilmour's solo album David Gilmour, and it's just sort of "Meh." I mean, sure, the music's good...but then again, I always preferred the lyrics of Pink Floyd to the music (generally speaking). Some of Waters' solo stuff is good, but a lot of that is just lyrics without the music. Combined they were at their best.

[Cail]

Meh, different strokes. I appreciate Waters and his contribution to music, but I don't think the guy walks on water.

I agree about old Floyd too. There's some really good stuff; One of These Days, Fearless, Set the Controls..., but then there's a bunch of it I just don't get into at all. Then again, I really dislike a lot of the hippy-dippy psychedelic stuff or the jam-band stuff, so that's in character for me.

The Delicate Sound tour was amazing, saw them 3 times on it. The Division Bell tour didn't measure up (and sorry about peeing on your shoes, I really had to go).

[Lord Mhoram]

Yeah I never got the old Pink Floyd either. Although some of those Syd Barret songs are rather funny.

[dANdeLION]

I have Piper and Saucerful...there's good stuff on them, but yeah, Gilmour made it a different band. I love that first tune on Meddle, too (One of these days). What a kickass tune for a bass player!

[wayfriend]

The Delicate Sound tour was amazing, saw them 3 times on it. The Division Bell tour didn't measure up (and sorry about peeing on your shoes, I really had to go).

Actually, standing on the floor of Foxboro Stadium, not getting into Floyd, and being pissed off at all the jerks shoving chairs into me and, yes, peeing in the aisles, was sort of the wake up call that I'm too old to be a kid any more. I've been muttering about damn kids ever since. *sigh*

And that was, like, what, ten years ago? *depression-riddled-sigh*

[dlbpharmd]

Combined they were at their best.

Definitely agree with this. I gotta get some of this stuff that you guys are talking about. I have Dark Side and The Wall, and I love 'em both. Which one should I get next?

[The Laughing Man]

I'd recommend Animals, then Wish You Were Here.

[Worm of Despite]

Yeah Mhoram, Final Cut is great and vastly overrated. Michael Kamen's orchestra is not the only thing it has going for it: Water's lyrics were reaching their apogee. It definitely feels more like a Waters solo album, though. That said, I prefer Amused to Death over Final Cut.

As for Floyd in general: I think they had one of the best streaks of quality albums during the 70s: Meddle, Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals, and The Wall. Love all of 'em, and WYWH was my favorite record for the longest time. My favorite music DVD is still their Pompeii concert. Hope PULSE comes out on DVD sometime this decade!

I don't know, Cail. I consider Amused to Death is a masterwork, and as a Waters effort I think it rivals anything Floyd did (although it is also very, very different). It also shows that Waters has another side -- a cynical, liberal side, mind - but another side nonetheless.

Amen!