Kevin's Watch

I love Fantasy Series, can't enough of the long story. But I need something that continues character and world development past the halfway point of the series.

I started The Sword of Truth Series and after Book 5 I was disgusted with how bad the story broke down to nothing but review of the previous books and "fluff" that really did nothing to advance the story. So, I'm pretty much done with that one. I'm too scared at reviews to bother going any further with it.

I'm reading ASOIAF and finished ASOS last night. I want to read AFFC but it's my understanding that it's only half a story and I'd need ADWD to finish the actual intended book...so I'm waiting for ADWD before I go any further with ASOIAF.

Should I bother with series such as:

The Sword of Shannara (spelling?)
The Wheel of Time

I know they're popular, but my research shows that the popular opinion is that they also stall out before they finish...

Please help me, I...must have...epic...fantasy series. [/Shatner] lol

I think the original Shannara trilogy is great fun. Lots of fun, creatures, fights, magic, etc. Never gets too deep, but there's a couple moments. Nothing new happened in the second series (Scions?), and I didn't bother going beyond that. (I tried Running with the Demon, but, imo, it wasn't good enough to go on.)

As always, READ EARTHSEA!
A Wizard of Earthsea
The Tombs of Atuan
The Farthest Shore
Tehanu
Dragonfly**
The Other Wind

**Dragonfly is a novella that can be found in a collection called Tales from Earthsea. Tales has some other stories set in the archipelago that are not part of the story arc of the six listed above. However, at least a couple of them are FANTASTIC, and all are at least very good.

For a short but great trilogy read Patricia McKillup's Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy! (I, personally, wouldn't bother with Brooks or Jordan) Steven Erickson's Malazan Empire books are fantastic too--more toward ASOIAF--probably a bit more complex.

an invasion from the next-door thread

Try Julian May's 'Saga of the Exiles' (The many-Coloured Land, The Golden Torc, The Nonborn King, The Adversary) and then when you love that, there are the Galactic Milieau books that are based in the same universe (different time) (Jack The Bodiless, Diamond Mask, The Magnificat, and the prequel Intervention) but that link the story magnificently.

For another really meaty but not fantasy series try Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series. 21 books and their all as good as the first!

I've been tempted to read May for a while---you may break me down one of these days Stone!

Go for it, Danlo! All this chat has made me decide to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-read them again!

Jordan's characters are alright, (usually), his world is excellent, but the story falls flat about 1/2 or 2/3rds of the way through.

Having just read the EarthSea quartet, I certainly second Fist's recommendation. Or you could try an epic sci-fi series and go for Dune.

--A

I'd steer away from Brooks's Shannara series - just peruse the first one, Sword of Shannara, and you'll find uncomfortable similarities with a certain other famous fantasy book whose acronym is LotR... I liked Brooke's Landover series much better, personally. And as for Jordan, you're still untainted, don't go there! The world is very good, but the characters and story steadily decline starting with book 4-5, and reach a nadir in book 10 that makes people want to puke at the thought of how much money and time they wasted on that. Book 11 is better, but really, don't go there... you don't want to finish a series just because you've read 11 books so far and it'd be all for nothing if you didn't read the last one!

Apart from this weird guy called Donaldson, there are lots of other interesting fantasy authors out there. For example, you might want to try the KW anthology

Definately second the Malazan Book of the Fallen. Also, The Prince of Nothing series by R. Scott Bakker. For something a litle lighter, there's Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn books. And, of course, there's either Latro in the Mist or The Wizard Knight by Gene Wolfe.

As always, I'll plug Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld series. Excellent stuff.

Another vote for Malazan here.

A very under-rated epic fantasy is Paul Kearney's Monarchies of God. Excellent writing, good characters, complex plot. Kearney can cram more into a 300 page novel than a lot of authors with twice as many pages to work with.

It also has the advantage of being COMPLETED - five novels, all in affordable mass market paperbacks.

The story is a fantasy analogue of the Renaissance period - major characters include a king, an explorer/mariner, a magician, a priest and a soldier. In fact, the story of the soldier's rise from the ranks to command is the best I've ever read - it puts a lot of contemporary military and historical writers to shame.

I agree with Erikson, and have to recommend R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing Trilogy - required epic fantasy reading.

Ainulindale wrote:and have to recommend R. Scott Bakker's Prince of Nothing Trilogy - required epic fantasy reading.

I've been meaing to read this for a while.

Must get round to it.

I have really enjoyed the books by Dennis L. McKiernan, for the reasons you describe: continuing world and character development. The books themselves take place in different ages of the world of Mithgar, and the older stories are often referenced as legends in the newer ones - and of course, various elves show up throughout.

The writing itself makes you care about the characters, who are constantly learning and developing throughout their adventures, and the tone is generally good-hearted.

The only complaint I've had is that they follow Tolkien a bit too slavishly (not as bad as Brooks, though), but even then, the twists on old icons is fairly refreshing.

You can start with any book, but the Hel's Crucible Duology is a pretty good place to start and get a feeling for the world and it's characters.

www.amazon.com/gp/product/0451454588/10 ... e&n=283155

Despite its flaws, I think Wheel of Time might be something you will like. Many of the people who think it stalls midway attribute that to the expansion of plotlines and characters. Something I actually liked. I hate series that want you to believe a grand world-wide conflict is taking place and confine it to a small cast and a small set.

Erikson, as others have mentioned, also might be up your alley. Definitely Bakker as the first three are the primo course and secundi is along the way.

Jacqueline Carey might be your cup of tea as well, though she write machination fantasy over real epic fantasy. No cosmic battles of good and evil, but some really nice complex studies in human nature and the struggle between people who have no morals and those who try to at least have some.

For new books, Scott Lynch's The Lies of Locke Lamora might be an interest to get in on the ground level. Nowhere near as complex as the others mentioned above, but it is a fun roller coaster of a ride (the others are trains -- the roller coaster, for all that you see everything coming, is still thrilling and enjoyable and the ride is what entertains you -- the trains are those books that take you on a real journey with sudden unexpected vistas unfolding and the readers reward not only the journey but the destaination as well).

Another series I recently reread is Melanie Rawn's Dragon Prince/Dragon Star series. It still holds up. Again. It is simplistic compared to some, because Rawn doesn't involve herself in trying to keep the reader guessing. The reader is in on the various efforts, plottings and plannings for the mot part. But she writes action well. She allows her "good" characters to do "bad" things out of necessity. She lets her characters plot and plan with the best of them -- in fact Rawn was one of the first to relaly delve into the realm of ambition and politics and allowing sheer greed and desire for power over others on a human scale to take center stage. There is romance but done so in not only believable fashion (for romatic fictionalization) but also with a healthy leavening of real relationship ups and downs. Rawn likes big casts of characters. Many of whom are pretty and handsome and noble. But it is fantasy after all (as Kate Elliott's clever blog rntry devles into).

C.J. Cherryh writes a great series which is often overlooked. The fifth book, Fortress of Ice (all have Fortress in their titles) comes out later this fall.

Lois McMaster Bujold writes great fantasy as well with three Chalion books out and a new duology set to start in about a month's time.

Good post Gyrehead. I agree with you in part about the WoT. For all it's flaws, I like it. My problem was not the expansion of plots and characters, that, like you, I enjoy. But it is twofold...first, that so little actually happened in too many of the books, whereas the pace could have been evened out better, and second, that those plots are now being resolved with almost indecent haste, as Jordan runs out of books.

It deserves at least a few more books Ithink, rather than the one more that is planned. I fear too many things will be left dangling, or else it will be as frenetic as the latest book.

As for Rawn, I enjoy the Dragon Prince series and re-read it quite often. I must get around to the other series.

--A

The only books in the series that dipped in quality for me in any way were the last three. And that is because in Winter's Heart I think Jordan made a strong and conscious effort to change the series from "ongoing" to "now we must end things". I think the series needed to go to thirteen or fourteen to truly address all the things I want addressed. And that is still being just fine knowing that Jordan wants to end the series with a "no nice neat packaged endings". But the last two books resolved things with much less detail than they were set up. Which should not happen.

If you enjoyed Rawn you might like Jennifer Fallon's Second Sons' trilogy (my apologies if you have already mentioned a liking or dislkining for them). She writes some okay fluff with her Hythrun Chronciles but the Second Sons series I really thought was clever and topnotch. And that advice goes out to everyone else as well.

My favorite series other than SRD's are:

Robin Hobb's Assassin Series, LiveShip Traders, and Tawny Man series (all related)

LE Modesitt's Chaos and Order series - now at 13 books, I've read 10. it is pretty unique, and some books cover the same ground but from the evil perspective, which you symapthize with. It is pretty cool to read the same account from the evil guy's point of view and actually sympathize with him....

Jack Chalker's Well World series - OK Vote, who here has read these???? Pulpy SciFi at its best !!

gyrehead wrote:I think the series needed to go to thirteen or fourteen to truly address all the things I want addressed....But the last two books resolved things with much less detail than they were set up. Which should not happen.

Totally agree. For me, 10 was the really bad one. 9 wasn't that great, nor was 7.

I actually quite liked 11, but it was just too fast.

gyrehead wrote:If you enjoyed Rawn you might like Jennifer Fallon's Second Sons' trilogy (my apologies if you have already mentioned a liking or dislkining for them). She writes some okay fluff with her Hythrun Chronciles but the Second Sons series I really thought was clever and topnotch. And that advice goes out to everyone else as well.

No need to apologise, there's no way you could know either way. And as it happens, I've never even heard of her. Will keep an eye out.

--A