Runes, Part 1, Chapter 8 - Into the Mountains

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Runes, Part 1, Chapter 8 - Into the Mountains

Post by Fist and Faith »

And Linden, Anele, and Liand begin to climb. It's not a bad climb at first. Nevertheless, as the hurtloam's strength wanes, she gets tired. Fortunately, they find aliantha. Alas, this is a point in the book that I'm not entirely happy with.
One by one, she dropped the seeds into her hand and cast them around the grassy slope as she had been taught, so that more aliantha would grow to nourish the Land. And from the pinto's back, Liand did the same. Seeing him do so comforted her. Apparently his people had retained that aspect of their birthright, whatever else they may have lost.
First of all, the last we saw, the people of the Land believed aliantha was poison. They certainly hadn't retained the custom of spreading the seeds to that point. But I guess Sunder and Holian could have started it up again.

What bothers me more is that the people of the Land eat aliantha, feel its power, but don't think much about it. Nobody (which really means Liand, although he never mentions anyone else ever saying anything) ever thinks it is beyond anything else they ever experience. Without lore, they can't work the wood or stone. Without more luck than they obviously ever have, they don't stumble onto hurtloam (and the "Masters" likely keep them away from it anyway), and feel its magic. But they do eat aliantha. Wouldn't you think they'd say, "There's magic at work here. We should look into it." Doesn't anybody have a stronger connection with Earthpower - just as some are more musically or artistically inclined - and see possibilities?

Anyway...

They finally reach the outrageous waterfall, and Liand leads them on a path behind it. It's not an easy path, because it's slippery, and the water's deafening roar seems to be trying to pull Linden over the edge with it. No, not consciously, but it's a powerful pull. After a time, she notices that Anele seems to be becoming... sane? He feels sane to her precipience, but what he says seems to say otherwise.
"Skurj! Skurj and Elohim. He has broken the Durance. Skurj mar the very air. Oh, the Earth! Its bones- Its bones cry out! Even here, they wail!"
OK, nothing insane in any of that, but aside from Elohim, I don't have a clue what he's talking about. What the heck are skurj and the Durance? And who is He?

Then he does sound crazy:
"My fault! Mine! The Elohim did naught to preserve the Durance. They are tainted. Arrogant. I lost the Staff! The treasure and bulwark of Law. My birthright. I lost it!"
The thought that the Elohim are tainted and arrogant sure isn't crazy, but what on earth is this about him having lost the Staff? It's been missing for millennia! Yet, he feels saner to her?!

Then he begs her to kill him, and end his pain.

Well, Liand notices that he's pulled way ahead of Linden and Anele, who stopped during Anele's rantings. He comes back, and, when they're all finally outside, Linden tells him of Anele's fears. I very much like Liand's response:
In response, Liand's expression darkened. "The Masters." His disgust was barely audible through the waterfall's roar. "The most dire perils stalk the Land, and they tell us nothing."
It's very easy to like Liand, and very difficult to like the Masters.

OK, more climbing. I tell you, I can feel Linden's exhaustion! They climb some, rest and have bread and fruit, then climb more. Linden's breath comes in heaves; her legs shake; she sees spots before her eyes.
Eventually she found herself approaching each step as a discrete event, isolated in time from the one before it and the one which would come next. During that instant, nothing existed for her except the effort of heaving herself upward.*
Holy moley. She sounds a bit fatigued! Finally, without intending to, or even being aware that she did it, she stops climbing and lies down. Liand helps her up, has her hold onto one of the straps on the pinto, and she finishes the climb without any awareness of what she's doing.

When they finally stop, we learn the reason she's so out of sorts. Aside from the extreme exercising she's doing, that is.
With Liand's help, she guided the waterskin to her mouth, drank a few swallows. Almost instantly, sweat seemed to spring from all her pores at once.

Dehydration, she told herself weakly. Stupid, stupid. She was a doctor, for God's sake; familiar with the effects of exertion. She ought to know better.
What a dope! Heh. Anyway, that passage always gets me. I can practically feel the sweat and relief!

But now, we get to the meat of this chapter. Linden finds Anele among some shards of granite. He's partially sane. By now, she knows that he somehow reads rock, and asks him what they're telling him now. He tells her of the destruction of the One Forest. Prothall first told us about it. Findail gave us more information, including the fact that an Elohim had been Appointed to its preservation, and had been turned into the Colossus of the Fall, to keep the Ravers out. But now, we hear it in greater detail than ever before. We knew the One Forest had an awareness, but it had never been described as beautifully as here:
"And in that age, the spanning woodland was cherished in every peak and fundament of the Land, held precious and treasured by slow granite beneath and around it, for the One Forest knew itself. It had no knowledge of malevolence, or of humankind, but of itself its awareness was immense beyond all estimation. It knew itself in every trunk and limb, every root and leaf, and it sang its ramified song to all the Earth. The music of its knowledge arose from a myriad myriad throats, and was heard by a myriad myriad myriad ears."
The pure, uncorrupted work of the Creator was a thing of such glory that we could hear about it forever, and never hear all. Such an awareness is difficult to grasp. A consciousness the size of a continent, knowing every detail of itself; every trunk, limb, root, and leaf. Yet this consciousness was as immensely slow as it was big. It was innocent of everything except its own existence. It sounds to me like the mind of the One Forest was a Zen Mind. Simply existing; knowing its own self and place perfectly; loving its own existence; always knowing perfect contentment.

But those wonderous beings called "people" showed up. Thoughtless and without "true ears," they were spurred on by the malevolence within Lifeswallower.
"No tongue can tell of the shock and rue among the trees when human fires and human blades cleared ground for habitation. The mountains know it, and in their hearts they yet protest and grieve, but mortal voice and utterance cannot contain it. A myriad myriad trunks, and a myriad myriad myriad leaves, which had known only themselves in natural growth and decay, and which had therefore never considered wanton pain, then cried out in illimitable dismay - a cry so poignant and prolonged that the deepest core of the peaks might have answered it, were stone itself not also defenseless and unwarded."
The pain that the One Forest felt was extreme. It was also an entirely new experience, both shocking and incomprehensible. This extraordinary being had no idea what was going on! As though I felt great pain in my foot, and looked to see that, for no reason I could imagine, a toe was missing. And worse, as I watched, more toes disappeared in tremendous pain. Followed, slowly and excruciatingly, by my foot and leg. I can't begin to stop the process, because I have no idea what's causing it. I only watch my own destruction in pain and fear and horror.

Then, things got worse! Humans had only been destroying the trees to make room to live. But eventually, their destruction became a savage thing. Whether this savagery brought the Ravers or the Ravers came and caused it is not clear. But I guess it's not overly important. What matters is that the Ravers came, and the destruction of the One Forest was increased with savage glee.
Hence came the Ravers to the Land, for they were the admixture of men and malevolence, and enduring hunger for evil coalesced and concentrated in transient flesh generation after swift generation until they became beings unto themselves - spirits capable of flesh, yet spared the necessities of death and birth. Thus they gained names and definition, three dark souls who knew themselves as they knew the One Forest, and who aspired above all things to trample underfoot its vast and vulnerable sentience."
As an aside, I wonder how this fits in with what Mhoram learned when samadhi touched him:
"They were triplets, the spawn of one birth from the womb of their long-forgotten mother..."
Unknowingly, the humans were lead by the Ravers, and the destruction grew and grew. And still, the One Forest was helpless and ignorant:
"Still the One Forest could only wail and weep, unable to act in self-defense. Despite its vastness, it, too, lived in ignorance. It knew only itself and pain, and so could not comprehend its own possible strength. Born of Earthpower, sustained by Earthpower, knowing Earthpower, the One Forest could not grasp that Earthpower might have other uses."
The mind of the One Forest slowly dies:
Thus the destruction of the trees grew as the ambitions of humankind and Ravers mounted. And with that bereavement came another loss, inseparable from the first, but more bitter and deadly. In the slaughter of each tree, one small gleam of the Forest's Land-spanning sentience failed, never to be renewed or replaced. Thus the wishes of the Ravers were fulfilled. As the butchery of the trees increased, so the One Forest's knowledge of itself diminished, lapsing toward slumber and extinction.
This is far worse than my disappearing foot. For all the fear and pain I would go through, my mind doesn't become less aware as my leg vanishes. If my awareness was like the One Forest's, the loss of every inch of flesh would diminish it. The pain and fear would always be the biggest part of my awareness, but, with each passing second, I would be less and less aware of my pain, fear, and awareness. How can we comprehend the destruction of this being? Maybe if we were horribly damaged, slowly dying in pain, but dying of carbon monoxide poisoning at a faster rate? Yeah, I know, I'm just full of cute analogies. But if you aren't sickened and horrified by the One Forest's destruction, then I haven't gone far enough.
"That grief was too great to be borne. Even mountains could not endure it. Peaks shattered themselves in sorrow and protest. This very cliff split as a heart is torn asunder by rage and loss, and by helplessness."
Anele's ability to read rock would be the coolest thing ever if the reader was not insane. See how powerful and specific it is:
For a moment, he gaped at the riven walls. Their yearning had come upon him like a geas. They needed his mortal tongue to articulate their interminable rue. Cold exhaled down the rift like a sigh of protest and loss.

But then his head jerked to the other side, and he seemed to find a new vein of song. His voice dropped to a murmur which Linden would not have been able to hear if he had not chipped each word off his stone lament like a flake of obsidian, jagged and distinct.

"The Earth itself heard that cry. Every knowing ear throughout the Earth heard it. And at last, when much of the Lower Land had been slain of trees, and the devestaion of the Upper had truly begun, the cry was answered."

Abruptly Anele leaned forward, shifted the angle of his head. "There." With one trembling, gnarled finger, he pointed into the center of the sloping rubble. "It is written there - the coming of the Elohim."
Amazing!! The Unfettered in TPTP would have been very jealous of Anele's ability.

Anyway, the Appointed Elohim finally arrives. ...singing of life and knowledge, of eldritch power beyond the puissance of any Raver. And singing as well of retribution. Hey, here's an interesting point to ponder:
"Why the Elohim came then and not earlier, before so much had been lost, these stones cannot grasp."
Excellent #$%^&*@ question! I can't grasp it either! Findail said the Elohim loved the One Forest. It's not difficult to see the reluctance such a being would have to being Appointed, since being Appointed always seems to lead to such a change that the Appointed is, more or less, dead. Certainly, it is no longer the same Elohim. I can't blame them for not wanting to risk it. But what prevented a dozen of them from going to the people and explaining what was happening, or kicking their asses out of the Land?? They could have easily done so long before the Ravers came, or even after. "Tainted" and "arrogant" indeed! Bastards!

Well, we know the rest. Anele tells about the Appointed being turned into the Colossus. Linden continues with the creation of the Forestals, which Anele says is not written in that stone.
After a long moment, Liand stirred. He rose to his feet; gathered up the food and waterskins. "No one remembers it." His bitterness echoed Anele's tale. "The Masters do not speak of it. This treasure of the Land's past, these memories of glory, they keep to themselves."
And now, Stave shows up. He's warning that they were foolish to stop, because "they have caught your scent." Liand is, quite justly, upset with the Masters.
"It is you we flee, Master." Once again his innocence and resolve conveyed a dignity that she could not match. "If we have erred, it is because we were granted opportunity to hear a tale which you have denied us."
He's a pretty cool guy.

However, the "they" Stave was referring to are kresh.



*Nothing to do with the story, but the awareness of individual footsteps reminds me of a passage from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, when Phaedrus attempted to climb a mountain, but failed:
He never reached the mountain. After the third day he gave up, exhausted, and the pilgrimage went on without him. He said he had the physical strength but that physical strength wasn’t enough. He had the intellectual motivation but that wasn’t enough either. He didn’t think he had been arrogant but thought that he was undertaking the pilgrimage to broaden his experience, to gain understanding for himself. He was trying to use the mountain for his own purposes and the pilgrimage too. He regarded himself as the fixed entity, not the pilgrimage or the mountain, and thus wasn’t ready for it. He speculated that the other pilgrims, the ones who reached the mountain, probably sensed the holiness of the mountain so intensely that each footstep was an act of devotion, an act of submission to this holiness. The holiness of the mountain infused into their own spirits enabled them to endure far more than anything he, with his greater physical strength, could take. To the untrained eye ego-climbing and selfless climbing may appear identical. Both kinds of climbers place one foot in front of the other. Both breathe in and out at the same rate. Both stop when tired. Both go forward when rested. But what a difference! The ego-climber is like an instrument that’s out of adjustment. He puts his foot down an instant too soon or too late. He’s likely to miss a beautiful passage of sunlight through the trees. He goes on when the sloppiness of his step shows he’s tired. He rests at odd times. He looks up the trail trying to see what’s ahead even when he knows what’s ahead because he just looked a second before. He goes too fast or too slow for the conditions and when he talks his talk is forever about somewhere else, something else. He’s here but he’s not here. He rejects the here, is unhappy with it, wants to be farther up the trail but when he gets there will be just as unhappy because then it will be ‘here’. What he’s looking for, what he wants, is all around him, but he doesn’t want that because it is all around him. Every step’s an effort, both physically and spiritually, because he imagines his goal to be external and distant.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Well done, Fist!
What bothers me more is that the people of the Land eat aliantha, feel its power, but don't think much about it. Nobody (which really means Liand, although he never mentions anyone else ever saying anything) ever thinks it is beyond anything else they ever experience. Without lore, they can't work the wood or stone. Without more luck than they obviously ever have, they don't stumble onto hurtloam (and the "Masters" likely keep them away from it anyway), and feel its magic. But they do eat aliantha. Wouldn't you think they'd say, "There's magic at work here. We should look into it." Doesn't anybody have a stronger connection with Earthpower - just as some are more musically or artistically inclined - and see possibilities?
I think this has more to do with Kevin's Dirt than anything else. The people lack Land-sight and so they don't "feel" the Earthpower contained in aliantha. As far as they're concerned, they're simply berries that taste good.
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Post by Fist and Faith »

I had considered that, and I guess it's the only explanation. But if that is true, wouldn't they all wonder why they bother scattering the seeds in that unique way the way they do? Or will we see Liand scattering seeds of other berries the same way?

But it's true that Linden doesn't experience aliantha as powerfully in the stew when she's being held in Mithil Stonedown, when she had no precipience. At least she doesn't think about it. She only thinks, If they stirred healing treasure-berries into their viands, they did not intend their prisoners to suffer. Still, I'd be happier if she had thought, She had always experienced aliantha much more powerfully. They had always filled her with the health and beauty of the Land. Now, they felt like any other berry. It must have been her lack of health-sense. I mean, not experiencing aliantha the usual way should have been as powerful and sad a thing for her as it is for me to read.
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Post by drew »

As far as why they scattered the berry seeds...why not? The lacked EarthPower and sight from Kevin's Dirt...but they're not morrons. If they noticed that eating these berries is a fairly healthy thing to do, then of course they'll continue to do so. They needed not plant and harvest them, and waste their farming area, because the grow so well in the wild, tradidtion dictated that they should scatter the seeds, so they keep it up.

Also, the Masters do not wasnt to see the people suffer, they jut dodn't want them to have any kind of Lore. Easting Healthy Tasty Berries aren't going to make you all of a sudden think that they are magical in some way, they will just make you think, "Hey, these berries are tasty and Healthy, we should eat more of them, should we try growing them?"
--"No, let's just scatter the seds like we've been doing for mellenia, and like the Masters do, they seem to grow fine that way."
--"Good point."
--"thank you"
--"No Problem, think nothing of it"
--"You're nice."
--"you're pretty"
--"Ahhh; you" (Blushes)
--"so, did you want to go somewhere for a drink or something"
--"Sure"
--"I think I love you"
--"Hey, what's in these Berries Anyways?"
A Master shows up, "Nothing! They're just nice berries."
--Both "Sorry Master, we were just uh...going to hang out over by that barn there"
--Master, "Leave the berries."
I thought you were a ripe grape
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
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Post by dlbpharmd »

:biggrin: Drew!

As far as why Liand scattered the seeds - have you ever noticed that when you ask someone why they do their job a certain way, the response is "I don't know, that's the way I've always done it."
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Argh! I didn't intend this to be a discussion of the damned seeds! My own fault. I'm not gonna talk about it any more! :lol:
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Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
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Post by danlo »

:D
fall far and well Pilots!
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Post by Zarathustra »

Fist and Faith wrote: I'd be happier if she had thought, She had always experienced aliantha much more powerfully. They had always filled her with the health and beauty of the Land. Now, they felt like any other berry. It must have been her lack of health-sense. I mean, not experiencing aliantha the usual way should have been as powerful and sad a thing for her as it is for me to read.
That's a damn good point. It's a missed opportunity by Donaldson to shed light on this apparent inconsistency, and (more importantly) to deepen the feeling of loss for this particular incarnation of the Land. I don't really think it's an inconsistency, because as we've seen here people can come up with reasonable explanations. But the fact that we have to justify it at all means that Donaldson didn't do enough to make it plain that this was his intention all along. Yes, this is a minor point, but looking back at my book, I made a note about it (I'm making notes in the margins as I go). Enough people notice it that it should have been addressed by SRD.

Sentences I like:
"But the certainty that the Haruchai would come after her rode her pulse as if her heartbeats were the rhythm of feet and hooves."
Ok, maybe too many instances of "her," but a neat sentence nonetheless.
"Now the terrain piled upward more strenuously, accumulating toward the heights."
Damn cool way to describe mountains. I like the verbs "piled" and "accumulating."
"Ahead of her, the Mithil's Plunge loomed until it seemed to pour from the heart of the range, bearing the private thunder of mountains in its writhen turmoil."
Wow. These kinds of sentences put me there. I am now mentally in tune to this thundering outburst of the mountains' unrest, the chaotic movement of these unmoving titans. The juxtaposition of utter stillness and frantic unrest is beautiful. I can feel the mountains' restrained urgency in the water's plunge for the sea. Excellent.

Okay, now Linden starts to wonder: what next? The text acknowledges the vagueness of her intentions, but it seems more like Donaldson thinking out loud about where to go next, rather than Linden doing so herself. I get the sense that Donaldson is lost here, too. This indecisiveness is distinct from the two previous Chronicles, and I believe it adds to the sense of purposelessness and lack of poignancy. Even when Covenant's M.O. was simply "ride out the dream, see where it takes you," he had more direction than this. He was going to Revelstone to deliver LF's message, even if that goal was absurd to him.

"The vagueness of her intentions frustrated her." Yeah, me too.

More writerly coolness:
The cataract pounded down from its heights as though it were driven by anger as well as eagerness; as though the cold force of the peaks filled the torrents with a fury for spring and renewal.
I can see eagerness, but why fury and anger? I think here we're seeing foreshadows of the pain only Anele can read. The mountains are furious for renewal because they've witnessed so much hardship and loss.

Donaldson conveys the ferocity and power of the falls, that they would snatch her away and pound her to pulp if she let that water touch her. I'm diggin' it.
"His teeth gnashed the laden air as if he sought to tear loose bitten chunks of meaning. He may have been crying her name, calling out for help or attention in a voice too mortal to be heard."
Gollum was never written so eloquently as this! Donaldson certainly rises to the challenge in conveying Anele's unqiue plight.

Okay, enough for now. I like this chapter too much to rush it. And I don't have the energy for more. Thanks for listening!
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Post by wayfriend »

Well Done, Fist. My first thought when I read about aliantha was woo hoo! Aliantha is back! But we don't really know if the people of the Land recognize it's potency or not ... Liand doesn't say anything. It may be that it is "normal" to them, and without seeing the Earthpower in it, think nothing of it. (Also, too, Linden's health-sense is not quite gone when she eats the berries.)

I also found Donaldson's description of the waterful, the power of it, painted an awesome picture very well. (Reminds me a bit of the ban saw passage in Cryptonomicon.)

I noticed a lot in this chapter that I did not see before.
Eathpower latent in his veins throbbed for conflagration. ... For an instant, a flare of Earthpower burned in his white eyes, set light to the water beading in his beard.
Not only do we witness Anele's sanity here, we witness his power. Anele is one amazingly powerful guy. I think that, if he wasn't insane, he'd be one of the most potent characters we'd ever met. Certainly more powerful than Mhoram... probably on par with Caer Caveral. (With the way he "reads" the stones, he might be some sort of "stonestal".)

I think we need to know this, we are prompted here to know this, as a set-up to Anele's retelling of the One Forest's tale. This is a figure of power telling this tale.

So when I read the words
"Yet even that renewed and renewed ignorance could not spare the One Forest. Humankind was as deaf to malevolence as to lamentation, and so it was easily led, easily mastered, easily given purpose, by the three"
it occurs to me that he's not just telling the story of the One Forest. Easily mastered! He's also talking about current events! The ignorance of humanity at the hands of the Masters. When Linden later says
The Haruchai had left the people of the Land as ignorant and blind - and as potentially destructive - as their first ancestors had been.
the point is hammered home. There is a strong connection between that past and current events.

"Hence came Ravers to the land": Anele's description sounds like the Ravers were not born, per se, but rather arose from malevolence so long sustained that it gained it's own form and spirit. Which means that humans, particularly ignorant and destructive humans, gave rise to the Ravers, albeit inadvertantly.

Now think about Liand's story about Elohim walking the Land, trying to awaken the people out of their ignorance. Ignorance which is like that which destroyed the One Forest and gave rise to Ravers.

SHOCK AND AWE.


- - - - - - - -

:?: When Anele is sane, he refers to himself in the first person. When he is not, he refers to himself in the third person. We need to watch for these verbal clues when he speaks. And make a connection to anyone else who speaks of themselves in the third person. :)

:?: "I could have preserved the Durance. Stopped the skurj." This is more wonderful ambiguity. You can read this that the skurj were released by the breaking of the Durance ... or that the skurj were what broke it.

:?: "Skurj mar the very air." --- Kevin's Dirt, anyone? If not, what a peculiar thing to say.
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Post by I'm Murrin »

Wayfriend wrote::?: "Skurj mar the very air." --- Kevin's Dirt, anyone? If not, what a peculiar thing to say.
Damn: another thing that hadn't come to mind before. This is another possible meaning of "fine riposte"--the skurj responding to the Durance. It would also explain how the Elohim have played such a vital and unanticipated role in the impending destruction of the earth: Elohim create Durance to stop the skurj; skurj break the Durance and in retaliation cause Kevin's Dirt; Kevin's Dirt leads to the Masters and the resulting inability of the Land to oppose Foul's plans, much of which we have probably been given no hint of.
It plays right into Foul's hands, and the brilliant part is that he had nothing to do with it.
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Post by Zarathustra »

"Skurj" reminds me of "scourge." We all know how Donaldson likes to play with the sounds of words, to imply connections to other words. Is this resemblance accidental? Surely not!

Definitions of scourge on the Web:
* a whip used to inflict punishment (often used for pedantic humor)
* punish severely; excoriate
* flagellate: whip; "The religious fanatics flagellated themselves"
* bane: something causes misery or death; "the bane of my life"
* terror: a person who inspires fear or dread; "he was the terror of the neighborhood"
* lay waste to: devastate or ravage; "The enemy lay waste to the countryside after the invasion"
To punish. A bane. To lay waste. Sure seems to fit.
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Post by Fist and Faith »

Excellent observations, Wayfriend! :D
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
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Post by Relayer »

I was just typing a reply to Fist's original post and then read the rest of the responses... great stuff here, and you've all covered many of my thoughts. This chapter gives us so many hints, but to what???

The skurj --->>> Kevin's Dirt (?) Exactly my thoughts when I listened to this last night.

Anele's power. Yes! He really is a powerful being. It's no wonder the Masters, who shun Earthpower, want to keep him captive. If he were ever to become sane... how much could he do?
Spoiler
and, he was born in Andelain, after having died and been reborn. what implications does this have as to his power and ability? It makes me think of Paul Muad'dib's sister in Dune who experienced the spice ritual in her mother's womb.
We knew the One Forest had an awareness, but it had never been described as beautifully as here:
Yes! I love this whole part, and you've described it beautifully. Also, great reference to the quote from Zen and the Art...

Good point about the Elohim now trying to warn the people of the Land. Maybe they did this back at the time of the One Forest too, but were equally as unsuccessful back then? Wayfriend, good point about the present mirroring the past.

Linden's vagueness? I think this is intentional; something about this is going to play out later, in unintended consequences or everyone else suddenly realizing they were supporting her for the wrong reasons or something. It could also relate to how she's not truly here to save the Land...

As to aliantha and hurtloam, I agree that the people just don't have the ability to feel them, due to the Dirt.

What really bothers me is, does no one ever climb high enough in the mts to get above Kevin's Dirt? Liand did when he climbed the Watch. Did he not tell anyone else about what he saw? I find that to be unbelievable. Though they were forbidden, how could he say nothing? Did the rest of the villagers not believe him? (echoes of how Nassic was treated? Perhaps this explains why he has "found no loves" in the Stonedown). He even knows that it "blinds the Land" -- was his healthsense restored while up there, even if he didn't know what he was experiencing?

And does everyone just think about the Elohim and say "oh well, the Masters say to just disregard him and everything he said, so that's what we'll do" ??? Hello??!!?
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Excellent posts folks, and some excellent points. I particularly like the observation of Anele as literally a being of power...Earthpower burning in his white eyes...

And a possible reason that Foul may, as usual, be telling the truth about having nothing to do with the "Dirt."

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Post by wayfriend »

Relayer wrote:Good point about the Elohim now trying to warn the people of the Land. Maybe they did this back at the time of the One Forest too, but were equally as unsuccessful back then?
It is certain that the Elohim walked the Land during the One Forest days, for Anele has just told us that they did so. This is what makes the parallel so strong.

But, at that earlier time, they walked among and spoke to the trees. This time, they are walking among and speaking to the humans. A significant difference.

Are the people of the Land doomed if they are not roused and granted the ability to defend themselves?

And will the defense be aimed at the Masters, or Kevin's Dirt, or ... something else.
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Might the Elohim attempt to move the people of the Land against Covenant himself, if they perceive that he will cause the end of the Earth?
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Wayfriend wrote:Are the people of the Land doomed if they are not roused and granted the ability to defend themselves?
Well, according to your theories, they're doomed either way :-)
Wayfriend wrote:And will the defense be aimed at the Masters, or Kevin's Dirt, or ... something else.
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Might the Elohim attempt to move the people of the Land against Covenant himself, if they perceive that he will cause the end of the Earth?
Excellent points!

Something we need to remember is a clue given in the trailer on SRD's home page (which isn't there anymore... it's been replaced by a blurb for FR). One of the lines says something like "when you can't tell friend from foe" ... which reminds me of how the Gap series plays out, with characters shifting between roles. In the first two Chronicles, we know who is friend and who is foe pretty quickly (except maybe the Elohim). But this time, we (ie Linden) really have no idea.
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Relayer wrote:Something we need to remember is a clue given in the trailer on SRD's home page (which isn't there anymore... it's been replaced by a blurb for FR). One of the lines says something like "when you can't tell friend from foe" ...
Does it say that? Let me check my downloaded copy. (We all downloaded a copy of the .swf file, right? :roll: )

It says "When the line between ally and enemy cannot be discerned, the truth can only be found in The Runes of the Earth."

( This is immensely pleasing to me. It fits in with my "angels and devils" theory. )
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Oops! 'fraid I didn't d/l the trailer.

Thought you'd like that one... thanks for checking!
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That's a good point. A whole book in, and we still don't actually know who is for Linden or against her or to what degree.

Most interesting.

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Post by Fist and Faith »

Right? Foul has helped her a lot, and the Haruchai are dirtbags.
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And Esmer can't help without hurting, or hurt without helping.
Last edited by Fist and Faith on Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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