Possession is Evil
Moderators: Orlion, kevinswatch
-
Unfettered
- Servant of the Land
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:05 pm
- Location: Memphis, TN
When Linden reaches Covenant to bring him out of his catatonic state in TWT, she "loses herself," abandoning impuses that would spring from her own need and instead gives herself wholely to Covenant's need and even takes on his plight for him, falling silent herself for a time. It seems to me that Donaldson implies that this is the touchstone: for whose sake is the possession performed? Whose need does it answer? Is it essentially an act of giving onesself or of taking from another?
Of course, it is more slippery than mere conscious intent. Unconscious needs and impulses can easily taint the process, despite best intentions (i.e. Linden's earlier failed attempt).
It seems to me that because of the necessity of freedom, anything other than a pure act of giving of onesself (and even giving up onesself) in the process becomes corrupt. But then, is this pure giving still to be called possession...?
Of course, it is more slippery than mere conscious intent. Unconscious needs and impulses can easily taint the process, despite best intentions (i.e. Linden's earlier failed attempt).
It seems to me that because of the necessity of freedom, anything other than a pure act of giving of onesself (and even giving up onesself) in the process becomes corrupt. But then, is this pure giving still to be called possession...?
Hard to say since it doesn't really happen in our world. Posession is the highest form of manipulation and we can all agree that is a bad thing.
But what if some one could go back in time and posses Hitler? There were times when Linden felt like TC was becoming the next one(Hitler) so she felt hesitant yet justified. When she did it to release TC from the Elohim, she was trying to heal him. She wasn't trying to make him do something against his will. I guess it comes down to the willingness of the possesed and the intentions of the posseser.
I dunno, I'm a little split on the subject myself. I wish someone would posses me and make up my mind.
But what if some one could go back in time and posses Hitler? There were times when Linden felt like TC was becoming the next one(Hitler) so she felt hesitant yet justified. When she did it to release TC from the Elohim, she was trying to heal him. She wasn't trying to make him do something against his will. I guess it comes down to the willingness of the possesed and the intentions of the posseser.
I dunno, I'm a little split on the subject myself. I wish someone would posses me and make up my mind.
"Hellfire! Everybody in this whole business, you and everyone keep accusing me of being some sort of closet expert. I tell you, I don't know one damn thing about this unless someone explains it to me. I'm not your bloody Berek."
-
Ageless Stranger
- Ramen
- Posts: 77
- Joined: Thu May 15, 2003 3:37 am
- Location: South Carolina, USA
im of the opinion that there are times when every option for good will have some hint of bad lurking within. in situations during which countless lives will perish if possession(perhaps due to the possessed's inability or unwillingness to use a power that they control) does not occur to save these people, the use of possession can be excused because it was used for good. however, there will always be that general taint of evil that adheres to the taking of another persons free will. whatever the reasons may be. lindens possessions of covenant were for good reasons that were generally altruistic, but at the same time, they were examples of using an evil practice. maybe there is no real answer to whether or not possession in all cases is decidedly evil, but that it is a last resort of questionable means to achieve a worthy goal.
Every man dies; not every man really lives.
Doc Holliday from Tombstone is my hero.
Doc Holliday from Tombstone is my hero.
-
variol son
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 5777
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 1:07 pm
- Location: New Zealand
im not sure if i would call LA entering TC & taking his catatonia on herself is possession. possession is taking away someones free will, & he didnt have any 2 speak of at the time.
i think that possession itself is evil, as our ability 2 choose is 1 of the things that defines us as human beings. however, sometimes bad things can produce some good outcomes. eg, war is bad bcoz ppl die, often innocent ppl, things r destroyed, & hatred often runs rampant on both sides. however the outcomes of war r often good. were it not 4 WW2 the japanese would have taken over nz & possibly treated many ppl terribly, & the nazis may have done the same in europe. so while war isnt a good thing, it can produce good results as well as bad ones.
i think that possession itself is evil, as our ability 2 choose is 1 of the things that defines us as human beings. however, sometimes bad things can produce some good outcomes. eg, war is bad bcoz ppl die, often innocent ppl, things r destroyed, & hatred often runs rampant on both sides. however the outcomes of war r often good. were it not 4 WW2 the japanese would have taken over nz & possibly treated many ppl terribly, & the nazis may have done the same in europe. so while war isnt a good thing, it can produce good results as well as bad ones.
You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.
In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.
He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.
He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
-
variol son
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 5777
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2002 1:07 pm
- Location: New Zealand
ur rite & i typo-ed i think. i meant that it wasnt possession coz he had no free will 4 her 2 suspend, as opposed 2 kiril threndor wen he chose 2 give foul the ring & she suspended that choice.
i think part of the reason that possession comes across evil is that LA tries it 4 good reasons, but in the end TCs surrender of the ring was necessary 4 his ultimate victory, so had LA tried 2 fite foul with the ring, she may have lost.
i think part of the reason that possession comes across evil is that LA tries it 4 good reasons, but in the end TCs surrender of the ring was necessary 4 his ultimate victory, so had LA tried 2 fite foul with the ring, she may have lost.
You do not hear, and so you cannot be redeemed.
In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.
He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
In the name of their ancient pride and humiliation, they had made commitments with no possible outcome except bereavement.
He knew only that they had never striven to reject the boundaries of themselves.
-
Guest
-
Reisheiruhime
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 2573
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:22 pm
Now, if you do not back off, I will force you into the dreaded pink princess dress. 
-
Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 25472
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 9 times
- Been thanked: 57 times
I'm so tempted to make a blanket statement like, "Possession, by definition, is evil." But life's not particularly clear-cut all that often.
And I think I'll throw in with Turiya.
(Actually, it's a good topic. But her vote was looking all lonely there 
)
And I think I'll throw in with Turiya.
(Actually, it's a good topic. But her vote was looking all lonely there )All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
-
Reisheiruhime
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 2573
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:22 pm