Kevin's Watch

Of all the magical powers wielded by Harry Potter, perhaps none has cast a stronger spell than his supposed ability to transform the reading habits of young people. In what has become near mythology about the wildly popular series by J. K. Rowling, many parents, teachers, librarians and booksellers have credited it with inspiring a generation of kids to read....And so it has, for many children. But in keeping with the intricately plotted novels themselves, the truth about Harry Potter and reading is not quite so straightforward a success story. Indeed, as the series draws to a much-lamented close, federal statistics show that the percentage of youngsters who read for fun continues to drop significantly as children get older, at almost exactly the same rate as before Harry Potter came along.

According to the National Assessment of Educational Progress, a series of federal tests administered every few years to a sample of students in grades 4, 8 and 12, the percentage of kids who said they read for fun almost every day dropped from 43 percent in fourth grade to 19 percent in eighth grade in 1998, the year “Sorcerer’s Stone” was published in the United States. In 2005, when “Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince,” the sixth book, was published, the results were identical.


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my "reply" to another "conversation" is posted here (where else? ) to comply with Menolly's wishes.......(it had to be done!)

Well who would expect kids to read for fun everyday? They have homework, friends, Game consoles, skateboards, stereos, etc. To be honest, with all the things going on in a kid's life, I would almost worry if they did say they were reading for fun everyday.

The continued increase in sales of the books says they are still be read far and wide, so although not reading everyday for fun, they are still reading for fun, just not everyday. And I believe, across the board, statistically other childrens series in general have increased in sales, meaning they aren't just reading HP.

I had time to read for fun when I was in school... mostly because I did it during class. And then my teachers got upset at me

I blame the teachers!!

^



I believe this supports my view that children who like to read will read, those that don't won't. It's a statistical percentage thingy that remains stable throughout no matter whats being published.

I figured I would throw this in here 'cos i promised not to say anything else in the other thread.

sindatur wrote:

Marvin wrote: It's just that time of year again when I get blasted from all sides by a new HP book or movie. I'm sure you can understand how annoying it is given my explicit, fundamental dislike of the entire series.

But I shall say no more on it.

I never understood where this sentiment comes from? Not just in relation to HP, but, anything pop culture stems this reaction from some group.

Seriously, so you see a trailer once a week on TV, maybe a radio spot or two, you see posters in the mall and at the stores. So, what? Why is it really unnerving? I have no interest in the Simple Life, but, I don't get a profound feeling of hate because I see a commercial every hour for it. I have no interest in going back to school, but, I don't dread August when you hear Back to school this and back to school that. I have no interest in Spongebob, but, it doesn't generate hatred in me to see him hanging from people's antennas or stickers on their windows?

Seriously, why does marketing the latest craze (even if it is viral marketing) grate so badly on someone they get a hatred for it?

Nor do I get a profound feeling of hate. I dislike the series and I said it annoys me.

I don't hold any hard and fast views on HP's intellectual merits and I've been clear that my dislike doesn't stem from that. I don't think there is anything inspiring about the characters or the formulaic nature of the plot. AT ALL. The last place a wizard should be going is bloody university to learn spells(and all the spells are in latin! what a surprise!)-how lacking in any chutzpah is that kind of storyline!? The main protagonists all come across as middle class brats. It's a 7 book series about private boarding school for christ sakes. [Pratchett was making an ironic(and very funny) point about the idea of wizards at uni, with his Unseen University, years before Potter came out.] The whole private chool thing reeks of an elite, upper class, British institution...it's just so drab.

I dunno, it just doesn't excite me. When I was reading it there was nothing that thrilled, scared or moved me, nothing new and the whole experience was just very deflating.

Esmer wrote: I believe this supports my view that children who like to read will read, those that don't won't. It's a statistical percentage thingy that remains stable throughout no matter whats being published.

Agreed. Also, I think people sometimes take the assumption that "reading HP --> branching out and reading other kinds of literature" for granted. I have no doubt that this is true in some children, but I don't think it's the most common scenario. My brother and I have opposite views on reading. I always loved to read, and he always hated it. My brother started reading the HP books, and my whole family was so excited that he was finally reading something. I was so proud of him that I even let him con me into reading them. I hated the first two in a *big* way, but he loved them. Then he got to number 3 and hated it, whereas I thought it was okay. He got about 80 pages into book 4 and then quit. I thought the 4th one was entertaining, and I liked the 5th and 6th (yes, I was shocked that I actually enjoyed them).

As the books changed, so did their audience -- and not necessarily in the terms that one might expect or even hope for (i.e., the readers getting older as the books progressed because they were the same kids who started out reading the series and were thus aging themselves). A lot of the kids who were so enamored with the first few books found them less appealing as they got longer and more "complicated." My brother is now 14 and won't read a book to save his life. On the other hand, I have a cousin who is still reading along with the HP series. She's 12 and loves the books, but no matter what I try to recommend, she has no real interest in anything else. She's like my brother -- gets halfway through a book and gives it up. She reads enough of a book to realize that it's *definitely* not Harry Potter or Harry Potterish (in the sense that it isn't written in the same style), and that's all she needs to know.

Waddley Hasselhoff wrote:I had time to read for fun when I was in school... mostly because I did it during class. And then my teachers got upset at me

I blame the teachers!!

The thing I'm focusing on is "almost everyday"

Thank you Esmer for complying to my request. It's appreciated.

Oops...I posted my rebuttal in the other thread.

As for the whole thing about kids reading, I think what it takes to bring a kid from casual reader to book junkie is one good series. I might be wrong, but when I was in grade school, I read the Hobbit, and just loved it, and then my sister told me there were three more. I read, sad at first that it wasn't as fun as the Hobbit, but was deeply moved and affected by the end. Ever since then, I've been a reader. Stupid Lord of the Rings...ruined my life, it did.

Out of all due respect for everyone, especially Menolly, is there any way to move this thread to General Literature?

Esmer wrote:Out of all due respect for everyone, especially Menolly, is there any way to move this thread to General Literature?

Hmm...good question, Esmer. I've never moved or split a thread before...

But, putting that aside, is there a reason why you would want it moved? Again, as long as there is a separate thread for it, I have no problem with it being here...

***edit***

Moved to Gen Lit, but with a shadow thread left in JK Rowling.

aah, just delete the one here, Menolly. People can pm me if they can't find it. If not just for "cosmetic" reasons in a lovely forum for those who gather to discuss their love for HP & JKR, please at least accept a humble gesture on yours and everyones behalf to have it moved to somewhere more appropriate....

I've noticed that Harry Potter is definitly designed to be read by kids at an age where they are more succeptable to reading habits, but I really doubt that it makes kids want to read.

One book series wont cut it.

Esmer wrote:aah, just delete the one here, Menolly. People can pm me if they can't find it. If not just for "cosmetic" reasons in a lovely forum for those who gather to discuss their love for HP & JKR, please at least accept a humble gesture on yours and everyones behalf to have it moved to somewhere more appropriate....

:shrug:

At this point, I would say "as you wish," Esmer. But, once the main thread was moved out of the JK Rowling forum I no longer have mod control over it. You would need to ask the mod of Gen Lit to delete the shadow thread in my forum.

Balon wrote:I've noticed that Harry Potter is definitly designed to be read by kids at an age where they are more succeptable to reading habits, but I really doubt that it makes kids want to read.

One book series wont cut it.

Balon, before this thread was created, there was a discussion on this in a different thread. Tazz introduced his disappoiintment in the series here and the discussion developed. Feel free to read the previous thoughts on the subject, but I would request your replies to those posts go into this thread.

I still believe a lot more young American kids are reading because of the HP series than if they didn't have these books to snag their interest.

My Daughter and son both love to read and do so for fun. My son used to not like reading and the Harry Potter books are what got him engaged and interested in reading.

Now that being said... one of the ways I got my kids reading was to mandate an hour reading time... you can do more but not less. During that time there is no TV, no computer, no video games, no phone and I read with them. Now I dont have to ask them to read or madate time for it. They do it because they want to.

*shrug* Anything is better than nothing. In other words, kids who don't read, then read HP, then continue not reading are still better off than kids who never read anything.

(Yeah SB. Start 'em young. I was. )

--A

Marvin wrote: I don't think there is anything inspiring about the characters or the formulaic nature of the plot. AT ALL. The last place a wizard should be going is bloody university to learn spells(and all the spells are in latin! what a surprise!)-how lacking in any chutzpah is that kind of storyline!? The main protagonists all come across as middle class brats. It's a 7 book series about private boarding school for christ sakes. [Pratchett was making an ironic(and very funny) point about the idea of wizards at uni, with his Unseen University, years before Potter came out.] The whole private chool thing reeks of an elite, upper class, British institution...it's just so drab.

I dunno, it just doesn't excite me. When I was reading it there was nothing that thrilled, scared or moved me, nothing new and the whole experience was just very deflating.

Wow, you've expressed my exact same sentiments about Harry Potter...except that I'm talking about the first movie, which I did not like at all. I've never read the HP books and have no desire to. I don't visit the Rowling forum, so I don't know the bickering and politics behind this thread. Marv's view just struck a chord with me. Private school shenanigans indeed. It's all irrelevant to me, but then, I don't think I ever got into children's literature, even when I was a kid. I resented books that were blatantly targeted towards my age group.

stormrider wrote:I think people sometimes take the assumption that "reading HP --> branching out and reading other kinds of literature" for granted.

I agree. Kids shouldn't feel they're obliged to read more literature just because they happened to love Harry Potter. Then reading becomes just another chore (like schoolwork). If a kid adores HP but isn't interested in any other literature, that's cool with me (regardless of my own feelings for HP).

Well.. Geez. It was written for kids. What kind of scary plot were you looking for out of a kids book? However wthere were 8.7 million buyers of the book the first day, in the US alone, that thought the story was not quite as drab or boring as all that.

If a million people believe a foolish thing...

(Actually, I quite like HP, have read the first 5 and will read the last two. Think they're good, fun reads. And they caught the popular imagination. The idea is certainly not new though...although rarely if ever executed as in-depth.)

--A

Back in 2003, I took the short fiction class at my local community college (BTW, everyone here knows the term community college?), and our class instructor said friends of her's who worked in the elementary system told her there was NO carryover from students reading Harry Potter to them reading anything else. Furthermore, back at least a year or two before that I had a conversation with an middle school teacher, who told me her students loved, and avidly read, tie-in media books (for video games or movies) but could not be moved towards reading other non-media based texts by the same authors.

However let's not deceive ourselves, this trend of young people being non-readers not so new. Whe I was in HS 35+ yrs ago. Only two of my HS friends were readers, and most of my HS friends were like honor society students.

Sorry for butting into your convo.