Kevin's Watch

What a powerful chapter showing TC totally out of control and perfectly content with destroying the universe. Wow, some of the desriptions here are just amazing. Anyway, TOT is my least favorite book because of the stories surrounding the isle and the one tree (and Linden). The Guardian has always seemed to me a filler story / character that just seemed like an after thought. Some questions -

What is the purpose of the Guardian if the Tree is protected by the Worm?

Why did Seadreamer want to get the branch? Before he died, why did he tell TC, "Do not!"?

Did Brinn die when the isle sunk? Are the Tree's xy coordinates the same but now have different z coordinates? Is Brinn down at the bottom of the sea now as a MereHusband?

Why did Vain's arm turn to wood when a Worm "star" struck it?

Dawngreeter wrote:What is the purpose of the Guardian if the Tree is protected by the Worm?

The Worm wasn't protecting the Tree. It's connected to it, and will wake up - and destroy the earth - if anyone messes with the Tree. The Guardian is there to prevent that by stopping anyone from getting to the Tree. But when Brinn became part of the Guardian, he trusted Covenant, and let him in.

Wow, what a mistake Brinn made then, eh? Some Guardian he turned out to be.

Brinn understood that TC needed a new staff of Law. The first one was made from the same tree. So Brinn let Covenant access to the one tree.

Seadreamer "sight" reveals to Seadremer that TC was a threat to the one tree. SD knew what could happen and overcame his mute state to warn TC of the danger. To no avail.

When Berek took a branch, the worm was less aware of someone distrubing it slumber. It may have been after the first branch was taken that the worm would react to an intrusion. And with TC having the White gold, well that is something to arouse the worm and set in motion the destruction of the world. TC was full of venon and the battle that could have ensued would have destroyed the Arch of Time.

When Seadreamer tried to take a branch from the tree, the worm reacted but not as it could if Covenant would tried to take a branch with the wild magic. If you remember that a star hit Seadreamer and exploded and blasted SD. When it hit Vain the ur-viles who made him knew a transformation would occur. Vain was the "so called" perfect structure or vessal". It transformed a part of him into a materail that could interact with the Land and Law. Becoming a materail of the world,(Remember Vain was created with lore that the Law didn't control or bind) In WGW, Linden expanded the wood(with wild magic) and melded Findial and Vain into the new staff.

The island if I remember rises and sinks, there was a guardian with the one tree from the point of Berek. (that what I remember from WGW.) So Brinn would be preserved to guard the one tree aginst other intruders.

It was, in fact, the fight of succession - the extravagent expression of passion between Brinn and ak Haru - that made the Worm restive enough to "rise" in defense of the Tree. This is the reason Berek set the Guardian - not so much to guard the tree himself.

Berek must have seen the potential for extravagence in the Haruchai even before the army that became the bloodguard swore their Vow to Kevin and Earth.

great questions DG! I Don't have anything to add, everyone has done an excellent job of answering them.

Ur Dead wrote:(Remember Vain was created with lore that the Law didn't control or bind)

I don't remember anyone saying their lore was beyond Law. That would make it another wild magic. I think it was beyond Kevin's Lore.

It's the Isle of the One Tree. And the chapter is titled Fruition, as in fruit... from a tree... I get it. hardy har.

Fist and Faith wrote:

Dawngreeter wrote:What is the purpose of the Guardian if the Tree is protected by the Worm?

The Worm wasn't protecting the Tree. It's connected to it, and will wake up - and destroy the earth - if anyone messes with the Tree.

I'm not so sure that that is true.

In [u]The One Tree[/u] was wrote:She gaped back at the Appointed. There were no words in all the cavern to articulate her panic.

"Do you not comprehend?" he knelled at her. "He has encountered the Worm of the World's End! Its aura defends the One Tree! Already he has brought it nigh rousing!

"Are you blind at last?" His voice rang like a carillon in agony. "Employ your sight! You must see! For this has the Despiser wrought his ill against you! For this! The Worm defends the One Tree! Have you learned nothing?"

Of course, we can't entirely trust Findail. And perhaps, also, the defense was not intentional, but a matter of proximity and coincidence. But I don't think the question is closed on this.

I agree that just because the Worm's aura 'defends' the One Tree doesn't necessarily mean that is one of its direct purposes. In the tale of the Worm it says the worm consumed stars etc then fell asleep and the world grew around it, so if maybe the One Tree is the centre around which the worm curled up then it may be a concentration of the worm's essence and therefore a source of great power and also the 'noise' caused by TC approaching the Tree would disturb the worm's rest. I am sure Findail said something about TC's power being 'too loud'.

IrrationalSanity wrote:It was, in fact, the fight of succession - the extravagent expression of passion between Brinn and ak Haru - that made the Worm restive enough to "rise" in defense of the Tree. This is the reason Berek set the Guardian - not so much to guard the tree himself.

I could almost buy that, but then there's this (after the fighting contest),

"It's not as bad as it looks. It isn't really dead." Her hands indicated the Isle with a jerk. "Not like all that ruin around Stonemight Woodhelven. It's powerful-too powerful for anything mortal to live here. But not dead. It's more like sleep. Not exactly. Something this"-she groped momentarily- "this eternal doesn't sleep. Resting, maybe. Resting deeply. Whatever it is, it isn't likely to notice us."

Not exactly all riled up and ready to fight. So that kinda squelches the idea that a challenged Guardian is a warning beacon to alert the Worm's defenses.

Brinn understood that TC needed a new staff of Law. The first one was made from the same tree. So Brinn let Covenant access to the one tree.

Brinn also understood that TC was hardly a seasoned white gold wielder. As Guardian, Brinn was outta his mind to allow destructive TC anywhere near this tree. Sheesh... Brinn even left the scene.

The following is only my opinion based on nothing more than........my reading of the book so there!

The Worm is alive, Earthpower derives from the Worm, like sweat or even the salt found in sweat.

The "One Tree" is the Worms antler, much like a deer's.

Berek, used Earthpower to peacefully take a piece off of the antler to make the Staff of Law and the Worm didn't have a problem with that.

Breaking the "antler" like Sea Dreamer was trying to do was an act of violence. The Worm responded in kind.

The Guardian and Brinn are one in the same and have always been.
"Thus I am renewed"
I'm betting/hoping this will be explained in future books.

Berek knew what would happen at the One Tree, he was an oracle.
He knew that Covenant needed to see that self sacrifice was the answer.
He was an oracle because of some twisted Ceasure thing that Linden did, trust me.

Why did Vain's arm turn to wood when a Worm "star" struck it?

Foreshadowing .....and more.
The "star" was a power beyond Earthpower, yet not so beyond like Wild Magic, and when it hit Vain it transcended any restrictions or rules the ur-Viles and created within Vain. But because it was purposeless power it couldn't do any more than that.
According to SRD, that was the whole hidden yet crucial point of the whole Quest!
If you didn't know that don't be surprised, I didn't either.
SRD said so in an interview (GI) and also said it was a concept that he was surprised many readers didn't get! It was so clear to him that he didn't focus in on it more apparently.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:The "One Tree" is the Worms antler, much like a deer's.....

.....According to SRD, that was the whole hidden yet crucial point of the whole Quest!.

Wow. That's kinda profound when you think of it like that. That the SOL is a product or something of the Worm.

Are you (or SRD) saying that if Vain hadn't been touched/ transformed by the Worm then he would not have been able to be merged later as the new SOL?

Dawngreeter wrote:
Are you (or SRD) saying that if Vain hadn't been touched/ transformed by the Worm then he would not have been able to be merged later as the new SOL?

That's what I read.
I can't remember the details though.
Anyone else?

Here's the relevant quotes from the GI. In no particular order:

I think of the "transformation" of Vain's forearm as the catalyst which makes his later changes possible. After all, how can you possibly have a Staff of Law that doesn't come from the One Tree? Vain carries the true victory of the Quest for the One Tree with him when Covenant, Linden, etc. flee the sinking Isle.

"And if that isn't enough, remember that the One Tree (and/or the Worm of the World's End) played a part in Vain's transformation."

For example, without Findail, without Linden's possession of Covenant in Bhrathairealm, and without Vain's "damage" at the Isle of the One Tree, Covenant's victory over Lord Foul, and Linden's creation of the new Staff of Law, would never have been possible.

Well, putting it as crudely as possible: the Staff has to be made out of wood, and Vain isn’t. Neither is Findail. They have to get wood from SOMEwhere. Think of it as a kind of “seed crystal” (I hope I’m using this term correctly). You have a vial of liquid that obviously isn’t doing anything; you toss in a seed crystal; and instantly the liquid is transformed into something else. “Vain’s deformation at the One Tree” is a necessary catalyst without which the eventual transformation simply could not occur.

"So think about it. What do you suppose the consequences would be if Covenant's Dead had simply *explained* everything to him? Well, let's see. Who in his right mind would visit the Elohim under those conditions? Who in his right mind would risk rousing the Worm? And why would the Elohim *ever* decide to Appoint Findail if Covenant and Linden already knew all of the answers? ("Pardon me. We don't actually need anything from you. We just want to trick you into Appointing Findail so we can go risk destroying the world for the sole purpose of bringing Vain into contact with the right kind of power.")"

High Lord Tolkien wrote:

Dawngreeter wrote:
Are you (or SRD) saying that if Vain hadn't been touched/ transformed by the Worm then he would not have been able to be merged later as the new SOL?

That's what I read.
I can't remember the details though.
Anyone else?

Vain's transformation was absolutely necessary. Perhaps Brinn/aHKA knew this much and allowed Covenant to pass. One thing for sure is that it was Brinn's combat with aHKA that made the Worm so restless (I trust Findail on this much more than Linden.)

In regards to the "What happens to Brinn now?" question; he's more of a spectre, or ghost or spirit...really more closly linked to a forestal (IMHO) then being mortal.

Who knows how long the last guardian (I like to call him 'Kenny') was there, most people are figuring it was since the time of Berek, but I doubt he was mortal...so imortal in act, wasn't he invisable to everyone (Non-Haruchai) until Brinn started kicking his ass?

(And then the only way Brinn could defeat him was to sacrifice himself first (kind of like waht TC ended up doing)...then later, the only was to save TC was for Cable to sacrifice HIMself.)

So if the Island sank, then the spirit of Brinn/Kenny would still be around, and if anyone tried to swin to the tree I guess, he'd be there to stop them...or maybe he'd be in a small row-boat in the general vacinity...? And if the Isalnd showed up somewhere else...Brinn/Kenny would be there.

He was placed there by Berek and as far as we know was never replaced until the Quest went there. He was visible as an old man in tattered robes to everyone until Brinn went to fight him then he was invisible til Brinn beat him up.

The 'stars' were meant to be the creator's children or something weren't they and there was something in one of the stories about rainbows being placed in the sky to show them the Creator hadn't forgotten them and would one day find a way to bring them home. I forget the whole story, They had wandered across a rainbow into the Creator's new world which they found enchanting so stayed a while but unfortunately they stayed too long and were trapped with the Despiser or they encountered a blemish i nthe rainbow (the despiser) so they couldnt get back, or something like that.

There is a thread somewhere about all the various creation stories and which is the real one, though it appears there are elements from all of them in the 'real' story.

Why did Vain's arm turn to wood when a Worm "star" struck it?

So that every dumb reader who has not realised by that point could get it at last that Vain is necessary so that he can become the new Staff >:-)

Unfortunately, however, this thought does not occur to any character in the story

Relayer wrote:Unfortunately, however, this thought does not occur to any character in the story

Well, Linden's not too observant, now is she?