HLT makes some notes as he reads

[High Lord Tolkien]

I just want to put down my thoughts as I rip through the book.
More for myself at this point.
I want to record how I felt as I read.
Right now I'm ecstatic where SRD is going with FR.
I'm a third of the way done at this point I think.

You can respond if you want but expect nothing focused or clear from me until I finish the book.
And I'm probably going to rewrite my comments with more detail as I go on too.
Sorry if there are other threads like this here already I have refused reading the FR forum until I'm done.

Started off slow.
I was worried.
There were a few changes of clarifications made in the "What has gone on before" that i though odd or interesting.
But after Esmer gave out the Vile history though I just couldn't put the book down.
Linden looks out from atop Revelstone and sees the two most important people in her life about to die and she........does...... NOTHING.
No surprise there.
Thomas Covenant!! OMG! His first word: "Hellfire!" SRD I f#cking love you for that!

TC is a total a-hole but it takes Linden 1/3 of the way through the book to figure out that he's NOT TC (at this point I don't know for sure but that's what I think)

It's interesting, the Word of Command, I'm trying to remember if TC ever told Linden about it. I don't think so but she should know that Foul can't be beaten with earthpower. A time bubble cyst around Foul to trap him forever?

First of all everyone who smugly told me there was no way SRD would have Liden go back and interact with the Old Lords can totally kiss my ass right now!

Although Berek clearly isn't Roger like I predicted so I guess I'm kissing some butt too!

Theomach (spelling? I don't have the book with me) is the Guardian of the One Tree!!
He has to be.
Linden said it seemed like he'd step inbetween time and be almost invisible to his opponent just the the Guardian was when he fought Brinn.
That's my prediction at this point though.

I'm having a hard time with Linden's love for Jerry though.
I'm going to sound like an ass but the kid has been catatonic ever since she's had custody of him but now that he's "awake" she expects him to love and miss her? Why should he even know her? I'm missing something there.

Oh and the Seven Words?
I'm f#cking giddy at this point about it.

Berek was pretty cool, not what I expected...it was even better.

The Demondim were pretty anticlimatic.

The Viles and Wildwood?
Not sure what that was all about.
I liked it though.
Those damn Ravers!!!
How much damage have they done in the Land!!!!!???
Bastards!!

So I'm at the point where Jerry made his wooden Rubix Cube and Linden finally figured out that TC isn't right.
There's going to be an earthquake, a big one.
I had this really great idea on what linden should use the Power of Command for but I forget now.

Oh and I KNEW Foul was behind the black cloud that afflicted Berek's forces.
The GI is not to be trusted!!!
SRD is a tricky bastard.
Thank God!
It's more fun that way.

Ok, in a few days the next 1/3

[Ur Dead]

Hehehehehehe .. more is yet to come.

Keep reading!!! Keep reading..

I have expressed my book opinion in another thread.

[stormrider]

I'm having a hard time with Linden's love for Jerry though.
I'm going to sound like an ass but the kid has been catatonic ever since she's had custody of him but now that he's "awake" she expects him to love and miss her? Why should he even know her? I'm missing something there.

Finally someone says what I've been thinking.

Well... actually, maybe someone else already said it -- I don't know, I haven't been here much recently. But I've been having "insensitive" thoughts along these lines for quite a while.

[Aranion]

HLT, you ain't seen nothin' yet. Can't say anything else at this point....

[High Lord Tolkien]

Finished the first half........

The Word of Command, what Linden did with it and finding out who the heck TC and Jerry really are.....WOW, freaking WOW.


Those damn Croyl.
I never really thought much of them.
The Kemper's was ok but the ice creature one in WGW was just plain stupid.
I was hoping SRD would drop the idea.
I still think it's a little weak but it really makes me ache about how it's tormenting Jerry.

The whole "we'd make a door out of reality and then be gods" was.....stupid!
I mean I got it, I understood it but....how the hell would they know what was on the other side?

And, I'm sorry, all I could picture when they were running away from Linden was from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "Run away! Run away!"
I need to reread it. thinking that probably minimized what Linden was doing.
Was she really taking the falling stone and reworking it to support the cavern? Damn!

Ok, about Linden............................................................................
You know what they say: "Even a broken clock is right twice a day".

I'll leave it at that.

[iQuestor]

Finished the first half........

The Word of Command, what Linden did with it and finding out who the heck TC and Jerry really are.....WOW, freaking WOW.


Those damn Croyl.
I never really thought much of them.
The Kemper's was ok but the ice creature one in WGW was just plain stupid.
I was hoping SRD would drop the idea.
I still think it's a little weak but it really makes me ache about how it's tormenting Jerry.

The whole "we'd make a door out of reality and then be gods" was.....stupid!
I mean I got it, I understood it but....how the hell would they know what was on the other side?

And, I'm sorry, all I could picture when they were running away from Linden was from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "Run away! Run away!"
I need to reread it. thinking that probably minimized what Linden was doing.
Was she really taking the falling stone and reworking it to support the cavern? Damn!

Ok, about Linden............................................................................
You know what they say: "Even a broken clock is right twice a day".

I'll leave it at that.

I think the image of the croyel eating away art jeremiah's neck was very vivid and shocking; I think the croyel work well as an evil being, and I figured from previous spoilered reviews they's show up. I loved the scene under Melenkurion Skyweir, and think that Roger's door our of reality was stupid, but the kind of stupid thing Roger would believe is possible when Foul promised it.

[dlbpharmd]

Agreed.

[Ur Dead]

And, I'm sorry, all I could picture when they were running away from Linden was from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "Run away! Run away!"

That was great.. I said it occurred to me that it was like Linden was like an old school nun with a big ruler chasing after two (exit sage left) boys. I just laughed like all get out.

And yes.. now you known why the mountain was split and how Rivenrock was created. Your assumtions were correct.

Blame Linden. Brings a bit of history together. I always wonder what could split a mountin in two.

In fact this book has tied alot of old history together.

Have fun reading the rest.

[dlbpharmd]

Blame Linden. Brings a bit of history together. I always wonder what could split a mountin in two.

Also, Linden herself creates the large stone columns that support the ceiling in Earthroot.

[aliantha]

I love how Linden is ultimately responsible for the "tradition" of the Unfettered Ones.

And yeah, I loved Berek. Trust SRD to take us back -- not to Berek Halfhand the Legend -- but to Berek the regular guy who's still trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

[iQuestor]

I thought the time travel in FR was handled perfectly.

[wayfriend]

Here's the notes that I wrote. Who cares, I know. Maybe it'll make you laugh.

10/11/2007
Finally got it. Read chapter one. Covenant is almost nasty. I am worried: if he can fool the Demondim with his powers, he can fool anyone.
Read chapter 2. Was expecting Linden to talk to the Mahdoubt, got Esmer instead. Esmer’s answer seems to imply that Covenant and Jeremiah are Ravers – or at least, the incarnations that are in Revelstone are. Because he talked about how good things turn evil when Ravers come along – hint! This fits with Covenant’s attitude, and the don’t touch thing. (Don’t touch me!) Maybe because Covenant and Jeremiah are “closed”, no one can see that they are possesed. And that Linden would find out if she touched them. Also, can’t rule out that Kastenessen is on Linden’s side. Earthblood is just another unanswered question, but “first” implies a ceasure trip.
Decided to keep an “as I read it” journal.
10/12/2007
Began Chapter 3. Interesting revelation about the Fire Lions; I guess the skurj are not as much of a thread as we thought.
Oh my God will Linden see that Covenant and Jeremiah are Ravers?!?! I think Covenant is not Raver-posessed, but Foul himself. The way Jeremiah defers to him. And Covenant blurted out how even Kevin didn’t recognize Foul when he was in Revelstone. I think my idea that Foul is in Covenant somehow is correct. Also my idea that Covenant is fragmented – except the fragments are these two-places-at-once versions of Covenant. And the Mahdoubt fled when Covenant arrived: hint! Either two Covenants cannot meet up, or she fears Foul, we’ll see. I read up to “give me my goddamned ring”. I had to stop – which is more exciting, if she gives him the ring, or doesn’t?!?!
10/13/2007
Ch. 4. Linden hasn’t given the ring, but hasn’t figured it out either. Covenant appeared in Glimmermere to the others – the “nice” Covenant. Linden got rid of the Demondim’s ceasure rather easily, now the Demondim are attacking, and Covenant has something to show her. I predict that Covenant will be mad about what Linden did. “Insequent” sounds like unsequential, so these guys probably have power over time. Jeremiah didn’t seem very scared of Ravers. Why Walls and Doors?
Started Ch. 5. Someone else posessing Anele, oh boy.
10/14/2007
Finished Ch 5. Obviously it seems as if Linden fell into a trap. Ch 6. What the heck is going on? Ten thousand years in the past. Theomach. Earthblood. I still cannot trust Covenant, because he would not let the Theomach say who he is. His excuses must be wrong. It all comes down to, can strengthening Law be wrong, even when it interferes with stopping Foul? I say no, so Covenant is lying. Began Ch. 7, looks like we are heading to Berek’s camp.
How did the Theomach change Covenant and Jeremiah’s magic? (How did “Theomach” leak out so early on the Watch?) And whatever happened to the wanting the ring? Wasn’t this whole thing advertised as a way to prove to Linden that she should trust Covenant and concede the ring?
10/15/2007
Finished Ch 7, into Ch 8. Linden is healing everyone in Berek’s camp. How does THAT not alter history?! The Theomach seems happy about it; he is being set up as the good guy. It’s so aggrivating that we don’t figure out what’s up with Covenant. If it turns out that he’s really Covenant and not some Foul or Raver I think I will be mad. I mean, how can he be so mean to Linden?
I am wondering about the possibility that he is not ENTIRELY Covenant – maybe the process of being in two places at the same time means that the whole Covenant is not present. So maybe this Covenant (and Jeremiah, too) have left behind parts of themselves like sympathy and love, and contain only the ambition and determination parts. Seems kinda lame now that I right it. It doesn’t explain the lies and the deceptions and the secrecy.
10/16/2007
Read from Ch 8, Linden healing the tent full of Berek’s army, to Ch 9 where Linden gets rid of Berek’s scout, Yellinin. So we meet Berek. It’s sort of cheesy that Berek learns of white gold from Linden, it sort of cheapens the whole thing, like there’s nothing special about white gold to the Land, the whole thing is explained by time travel. Interesting to learn the seven words, and to discover that the Theomach sort of teaches them to Berek. So Linden knows who the Theomach really is, and he is here to train Berek about Earthpower – perplexing. Covenant lied about being touched, and Berek got burned … if he’s not Foul or a Raver I’m going to throw the book. Look at the clues:
- Esmer tells Linden good things go bad, because of Ravers – hint.
- Covenant talks about how Foul was not recognized when he was a Lord in Revelstone – hint.
- They don’t want Linden to touch them, because she would feel the Marid-style heat, and lie to cover it up.
- The don’t like Earthpower, because it’s anathema to them, and they lie to cover it up.
- Covenant warms up Linden exactly like Foul gave Covenant health in TPTP.
- Of course, their entire attitude towards Linden.
- Covenant would not let the Theomach say who Covenant was.
- Linden is warned to use the Earthblood first – to stop Covenant, probably.
- The lightning that they used to go back in time is similar to the summoning lightning in Runes.
- The “other” Covenant who is supportive and nice.
- Jeremiah’s facial tic points to a conflicted personality.
- The Mahdoubt fleeing Revelstone – why would she be afraid of the real Covenant? (Is she the Theomach?)
“Theomachy” means battle with the gods, or battle among the gods. “theomachist, theomach. Someone who opposes divinity or who fights against God or the gods.” So the Theomach is someone who fights gods or who fights for gods.”
Insequent” is the opposite of “consequent”, which means follows causally; that is, “random”; “Insequent” obviously refers to facility with time.
10/17/2007
Wait, the Theomach _is_ cheap. If he can help Berek, why didn’t he help Mhoram, etc.
Also – another clue, Covenant would never use the Earthblood after what happened to Elena.
Finished Ch 9, started Ch 10, They just escaped from the Viles. Apparently that was a set piece to get the ring. Then they escaped just fine. The Viles, aparently, saw no purpose in their lives? Anyway, Linden sees that Esmer helped her more than she thought.
10/18/2007
Damn! Damn! In flipping pages to get to where I left off, I saw something about Jeremiah and croyel. Damn! I think its in the next chapter or too. I ope it doesn’t mean what I think it means … I’m trying not to think about it at all!
Finished Ch 10, almost finished Ch 11. Finally, the Linden/Covenant/Jeremiah thing is coming to a crisis! I stopped right where Linden slides into home plate in Earthroot and confronts the other two. I had to stop and savor the anticipation before I finished the chapter. Jeremiah has demonstrated his door ability – construction seems to be his “means of articulation”. Does this mean that Jeremiah’s fundamental personality is based on escaping or leaving places?
More of Covenant’s lies have been exposed. Linden is doing what I would do. I can’t see any good reason to lead us this far and then turn out that the Covenant we have met is a good guy, merely misunderstood. I have my fingers crossed. I’ll find out in the next two pages, I hope.
Back again: Darn it! The Theomach doesn’t act like Covenant is about to destroy the world, he seems fine with the goal, but adjusted the means. And the Viles seemed to know what he was up to, as well, enough to say that Linden did not need them. THAT doesn’t fit! Maybe they’re fooled as well? Gah!
10/19/2007
Yay! I am so relieved! It wasn’t Covenant – that’s the most important thing. I’m a little disappointed that it’s only Roger and a croyel, though. Still wondering why the Theomach was okay with those guys.
Finished ch 11, ch 12, and started ch. 13. Linden survived Roger and the croyel, learned very little, and emerged into Garroting deep to find the Mahdoubt. The Mahdoubt! Sweet! And Caerroil just arrived. I am disappointed that “Show me the truth” didn’t benefit Linden more than it did. I mean, it’s wide open. She should have learned the truth about a lot of things, a vision granted by the Earth to make the horserite look silly.
10/20/2007
Finished Ch 13, all of Ch 14. So, Linden is the basis of the Unfettered. Wildwood finished her staff. The Mahdoubt rescues Linden, assuredly. The orcrest makes Anele sane, but he doesn’t want to be. And somneone got rid of the urviles … I’m thinking Roger did, he doesn’t need them any more.
10/21/2007
Chs 15 and 16. We meet another Insequent, what are these guys? So the Theomach becomes ak-Haru. That explains how Berek met him before he met the Haruchai – ak-Haru wasn’t (then) a Haruchai, but the Haruchai gave him the name nonetheless. The Mahdoubt is gone. And the Harrow is on Linden’s tail now. At least we’re down to one Insequent. Why did the Mahdount need Linden to know about ak-Haru? Something to do with “invoking” Stave, whatever that means.
It clearly states that the Theomach defeated the guardian Elohim in Combat. But in WGW ak-Haru says that Berek did not win his way in combat, which is why the Worm wasn’t arroused. Either “oops”, or therei n lies a tale.
These loose ends Donaldson is tying up … they’re not loose. I want to know where we’re going, I want to finally find Covenant.
10/22/2007
Ch. 17, began Ch 18. Linden leaves Revelstone, but not before passing two tests. What is the implication for the Ranyhyn bringing the Humbled along? Woodhelven in trouble, its antics between the Harrow and Esmer. Harrow unmakes an ur-vile. I stopped right when Roger and some cavewights appear. Uh oh. It’s gonna be the battle of the five incomprehensible armies .
10/23/2007
Finished Ch 18, all ch 19, began ch 20. Raver kresh and sandgorgons join the battle. Battle over, Linden heals everyone. Sandgorgons head off to Doriender Corishev. Mahrtiir is blind. Bhapa has a replacement Ranyhyn. But Liand! Liand is coming into his own – he makes a better Lord than Linden. And the Harrow promises that he can bring Linden to Jeremiah.
10/24/2007
Finished Ch 20, began ch 21 (?). Linden reaches Silva Gildenlode. They fight off a skurj, then meet some giants. The true purpose of Kevin’s Dirt is revealed: it limits Linden’s power, she can’t fight off a single skurj. Giant’s can. Anele seems to hint that Covenant, also, would not want Linden to go to Andelain.
10/25/2007
Finished ch 21, began ch 22 (?). Linden and the giants have a discussion. We learn about this giant that wants to kill Linden. They head for Andelain, but the skurj are upon them before they get there. Linden has a secret ambition which she won’t share – not even with the reader.
10/26/2007
Finished Ch 22, began ch 23. Linden can’t use the ring, they hold of the skurj with rain, Esmer reveals a lot of things. Another discussion-while-a-battle-rages kind of chapter, bleah. They make it to Andelain, the Ranyhyn come back. The Masters know where the krill is, of course. The giants have a caamora.
10/27/2007
Finished it: finished Ch 23, all of ch 24. The Harrow and Infelice show up. They get to the krill. And we find out what Linden is up to: with the help of the krill, she is able to use wild magic and Earthpower to resurrect Thomas Covenant. Who isn’t very happy about it. The Masters tried to stop her , too. Oh, and Covenant is the Timewarden now.
I have to admit, I didn’t see that coming. We were pretty carefully misdirected by the author.
Was this what Foul and Roger and Kastenessen feared? I think so. Was it what Infelice feared? Who can know.
Did Linden really rouse the Worm? If she did, it’s not a spectacular stretch to deduce that she quells the Worm somehow, or else there would not be two more books. (Unless they all flee back in time?)
I think the most important question is: by making Covenant mortal (again), has she done something dangerous. Can the Arch of Time be slain now? Can the Timewarden ward time?

[Aleksandr]

Re: Was this what Foul and Roger and Kastenessen feared? I think so.

I disagree. This is exactly what Foul wanted and all of Roger's manipulations drove Linden to it. Foul cannot get past Covenant while Covenant is fused into the Arch. Now he's just human again and the Arch is undefended. The business with the Worm is (I think) a side issue, though I expect book 3 will deal with the Quest to Quell the Worm, probably involving the Theomach in some way, whsoe true name Linden knows. But with the Arch now vulnerable and more than one white gold ring in the Land, Foul's in a much better spot than he's ever been.

[ninjaboy]

I cannot see how the Worm can be Quelled...

A bit like bringing peace & democracy to Iraq..

[MsMary]

I'm having a hard time with Linden's love for Jerry though.
I'm going to sound like an ass but the kid has been catatonic ever since she's had custody of him but now that he's "awake" she expects him to love and miss her? Why should he even know her? I'm missing something there.

Finally someone says what I've been thinking.

Well... actually, maybe someone else already said it -- I don't know, I haven't been here much recently. But I've been having "insensitive" thoughts along these lines for quite a while.

I found it a bit artificial that she kept calling him "honey" in all her conversations with him. She doesn't strike me as the type of person who would call anyone "honey." Did she call him that before they were transported to the Land?

[Manny Calavera]

And, I'm sorry, all I could picture when they were running away from Linden was from Monty Python and the Holy Grail: "Run away! Run away!"
I need to reread it. thinking that probably minimized what Linden was doing.Was she really taking the falling stone and reworking it to support the cavern? Damn!

When I got about 3/4's of the way through that battle scene,I kept thinking if Roger doesnt get killed here,I will be supremely pissed.

She's dumping thermo nuclear warheads worth of earth power at him,and he just shrugs it off and splits ? I think NOT !! Then again with the EITKS battle !?!! WTH ! That was cheap.

[Usivius]

I'm going to sound like an ass but the kid has been catatonic ever since she's had custody of him but now that he's "awake" she expects him to love and miss her? Why should he even know her? I'm missing something there.

I think something should be understood about Jeramiah's 'condition'. Autism doesn't mean that you have no awareness of the outside world or people in it that are interacting with you. Generally it just means that their focus is on a particular thing or things that they react to. Look at 'Rain Man', that was an interesting example of how a form of autism can take. Now granted 'Jerry' seems much more shut out than Hoffman's character, but its similar. If it was possible for an autistic person/child to suddenly snap out of it, they would have a surprising amount of recollection and knowledge of people and events that had been around them (liekly not right away, but it was all flood back out -- theoretically). Besides, as will all these medical things, I am sure SRD has also researched a lot about it...

To me, Linden's love for the boy is real and is not strange at all --- and fits in to this notion of a strange love that she experiences --- similar to loving TC who is dead ...........

[ParanoiA]

I don't know about all that as SRD is selling his condition in terms of behavior, not as a diagnosis. There's no reason to believe he's autistic at all. So, there's no reason to believe he'll recollect anything at all - or perhaps he is trapped in his own prison he built for himself - to protect him from Foul's malice (after all he builds doors and such - perhaps his condition is self-defense?).

And Linden's love for him seems to me to be more projected, if that's the right word. Not only is there the subtle accumulation of anomolies observed over the course of 10 years that together culminate a kind of personality. And I'm sure she has him built to an ideal in her own mind. It's easy to love something, actually. 10 years gives SRD a good excuse to find that depth.

[Mortice Root]

Does SRD ever refer to Jeremiah as "austistic"? I honestly don't remember. In any event, I don't think Jerry's condition would really be termed autistic. It seemed like a psychological response to a series of traumatic events (you know, having his biological mother hold his hand in a bonfire to summon an evil demon and all that...) whereas autism isn't a response to a specific psychological event.

In any event the actual diagnosis of Jerry's condition isn't as important as the condition itself, which clearly shows a lack of reciprocity in interpersonal relationships. That's not to say he couldn't develop an attachment to Linden during their time together, only that we haven't been shown yet whether or not he has.

[IrrationalSanity]

On the other hand, lavishing attention on someone or something over a period of time can lead to the the kind of obsessive feelings Linden has toward Jeremiah. It doesn't matter whether those feelings are returned. There is a huge emotional investment that she just can't let go of.