I'm disappointed in myself...*SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY*

Post by **The na-Mhoram** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:51 pm

About Covenant and Jeremiah. At first it made sense, I figured if Covenant had become part of the Arch, it would cause some changes in his demeanor over the centuries. And Jeremiah we didn't know anything about his personality, so anything he did wasn't suspicious. But Roger...bah, I should've been able to figure that out. Especially when Berek touched him, which he said would unmake him...but I went blithley along, convinced it was the real TC.
Did anyone else get fooled as bad as I did? Maybe I just didn't want to see the truth, like Linden I wanted to see TC again so bad I ignored all the obvious warning signs and resigned myself to an even more anti-social TC.

Post by **LowlyPeasantKevin** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:56 pm

I was fooled, too. Because of the "We're in two places at once" line, I duped myself into thinking that TC's personality was broken up into two places as well.

Post by **Mortice Root** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:27 pm

Yup, I'm with you guys. SRD totally had me going for most of the first half of the book, too. I also was totally willing to accept (like Linden was) an "altered" TC in place of the real thing. One of the things that makes SRD such a good author is that he can fool so many of his readers, but yet, when Roger is revealed, it's set up so well that it doesn't feel contrived at all.

Post by **Starkin** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:07 pm

Yeah, me too. I felt like something was up the whole time but I NEVER would've come up with the ol' Rog and croyel thing on my own. That whole scene literally blew me away.

SRD is a genius.

Post by **Believer** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:04 pm

Covenant was too off for me to think it was really him, but I didn't think it was Roger, nor that Jeremiah was controlled by the croyel.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:33 pm

I knew that it wasn't Covenant, and was about 90% sure it was Roger. However, I was completely fooled by Jeremiah.

Post by **Aleksandr** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:47 pm

SRD dropped some hints about Roger, most especially when he (as fake TC) was asking for the Ring and Linden thought about Roger. Also, Roger's TC lacked some crucial memories.
I had no idea what was up about Jeremiah. I actually thought he was some sort of fake, maybe one of the shadowed Elohim like Chant masquerading as Jeremiah and giving power to Roger. (I was expecting that Chant and his faction might have progressed rather far in their shadowing, maybe becoming dupes of Foul. Oh well, another prediction bites the dust)

So, is the boy an active bargainer with the croyel, or was he a passive victim?

Post by **stormrider** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:52 pm

Was sure it wasn't Covenant the second he started asking for the ring. I don't know why, but it struck me as odd. Kept telling myself it probably wasn't Roger because I didn't understand how he could have those powers. Never occurred to me that he was sporting an Elohim-hand.

Post by **aliantha** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:14 pm

I dunno when, exactly, I figured it wasn't really TC -- probably when Berek touched him and he didn't explode. Never occurred to me that it might be Roger.

And yeah, I had no idea what was up with Jeremiah. I really had no idea that a croyel could so animate a person.

I think Foul snagged Jeremiah in the bonfire at the beginning of the 2nd Chrons, and gave him the croyel shortly thereafter. That would explain Roger's comment in Runes that Jeremiah hasn't been "here" for years.

Post by **Aranion** » Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:45 pm

It was very late in part one, but the clincher for me was the whole "F**k the Elohim, f**k..." that Roger in TC guise said. So totally unlike TC I knew it wasn't him.

Never predicted it was Roger, though - and the croyel was a surprise to me, too.

Post by **Rocksister** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:48 am

I knew it wasn't Covenant; his explanations of why he was so different were totally bogus. He didn't change; he was dead and remained as before. So how could his attitude change? I didn't know who or what he really was, but he wasn't Covenant and I knew it. And the kid taking up with Covenant and kind of blowing Linden off? A giveaway. It was all wrong. Something wasn't kosher but dang if I could guess, even once. SRD writes so that you're led in a zillion different directions, then when something mundane is going on, POW! He smacks you upside the head with the answer. Like after Linden invoked the POC. Hoo hoo, what a ride!!!! All hail SRD!!

Post by **King Elessar 8** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:02 pm

I assumed Covenant was being controlled by a Raver - which would have explained why he didn't want Linden to touch him, didn't want to be around the Staff of Law, and why when he struck Berek it was described as being hot. Then again, I thought that was kind of a cliched way for Donaldson to go, and I was glad to see he didn't do it! But when you think about it, if Roger could have controlled himself for a few hours and not acted like such a douche to Linden from the moment he entered Revelstone, she probably would have given him the ring. All those hopes of being a god wasted because he couldn't pretend to be decent for a few minutes; such is evil I guess.

Post by **Cameraman Jenn** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:39 pm

You have to take into consideration that Roger was very arrogant. He showed that in the very beginning when he insisted upon taking his mother. He thinks he can do anything he wants and get away with it so I think on some level he didn't think Linden would actually stand up to him or worse, thwart him. He honestly didn't consider her very smart or much of a real threat.

Post by **burgs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:55 am

Even though TC kept "drawling", I was fooled too. And it seems so obvious!!!

Post by **stormrider** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:33 pm

burgs wrote:Even though TC kept "drawling", I was fooled too. And it seems so obvious!!!

I got this image of Draco Malfoy stuck in my head every time Covenant drawled.

Post by **lucimay** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:50 pm

i knew covenant was roger and i knew that jerimiah wasn't right. just didn't know why he wasn't right.

covenant didn't even TALK like covenant. totally.

Post by **lucimay** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 7:50 pm

Lucimay wrote:i knew covenant was roger and i knew that jerimiah wasn't right. just didn't know why he wasn't right.

covenant didn't even TALK like covenant. totally.

it was obvious from the outset that roger's a bigger prick than covenant ever THOUGHT about being.

Post by **burgs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:22 pm

Lucimay wrote:it was obvious from the outset that roger's a bigger prick than covenant ever THOUGHT about being.

Roger is, though, Covenant's son... Apple didn't fall all that far from the tree, although the apple, in Roger's case, is missing it's seeds.

Post by **Believer** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:18 pm

well, roger was probably corrupted by foul early on, like joan... we just never saw the evidence of it before.

Post by **burgs** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:33 pm

Believer wrote:well, roger was probably corrupted by foul early on, like joan... we just never saw the evidence of it before.

Yes, no doubt he was.

Interesting - the product of Joan and TC has become something akin to a Raver. The possibilities are endless.

I hope that a Forestall slaughters him, personally.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

I'm disappointed in myself...SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY

I'm disappointed in myself...SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY