Redemption

[Skurj Scourge]

TCTC has always been about redemption, as is most great literature/art. I am intrigued to find out how SRD plans to redeem what he has created, and how he will redeem the Earth itself.

There is a lot of water to carry in the next two books. I believe that the Viles will be absolutely key in the ultimate conclusion of the saga. SRD has set it up so that entire races are candidates for redemption: Elohim, Haruchai and Viles to start, but the residents of the Land can be redeemed by rediscovering Earthpower, the Ramen by being able to return to The Plains and the Rahynyn themselves.

The Ur-Viles have tasted redemption with the creation of Vain (in effect creating the New SoL) and have created The Manacles, which is the subject of much speculation in other threads. If they have it within their power to create the SoL, then I would hope that the Manacles are powerful/important enough to complete their redemption. Since the Ravers clearly are responsible for the corruption of both the Viles and the Demondim, it seems logical that Ur-Viles, as “offspring” of these two races, can achieve redemption by ridding the Earth of Ravers.

The Haruchai have fallen to arrogance and hubris by proclaiming themselves The Masters, and taking choice from the people of the land. I believe that the Humbled with play an integral role in either the final redemption or damnation of their people. Given what happened to the Unhomed, I am not 100 percent sure that the Haruchai will in fact come out of this on the winning end. They may be too severe to survive the revelation that they have been serving Despite.

The Elohim are another story. Their arrogance is inherent, and I believe they are candidates for paying the ultimate price. In effect, they are cowards, I’ve written in another thread that we may see the entire Elohim race Appointed (against their will, as was Findail’s fate) to power the new Arch of Time. While this means the destruction of them as a people, they will go on to serve a higher purpose.

The Ramen are dependent on the Great Horses for their redemption and I am curious as to how it will play out.

And the people of the Land? They are the ultimate victims in this saga. Stripped of their right to Earthpower by the Masters, limited by Kevin’s Dirt, and with a history of suffering under the Sunbane and Clave, they have been abused at every turn. The need to find their own power and rise up and defend themselves. I find it interesting that other than Liand, we have so very little interaction with them through FR and ROTE. They suffer silently.

Will Kastanessen be redeemed? Or is he beyond hope? Will his actions somehow lead tot he salvation of the Earth? Roger and Joan?

I wonder if even Foul himself is beyond redemption? If he is indeed, as some have speculated, part of The Creator, then will we see a joining of the two to create a new Arch? It’s clear that he can’t be destroyed, just incapacitated for a while, while the Arch exists. If we are looking for an Earth without Despite, we will need to see the Arch recreated without the flaw that allows him to exist. But that begs the question, as Kasryn put it, that all great creations must have a flaw to exist.

Will Linden, as a White Gold Wielder, have the power to create a perfect Arch? Will Jeremiah create a structure that will become the new Arch of Time?

There is so much more…TC himself, Linden’s redemption, Esmer, all the characters….

[ninjaboy]

I agree with a lot of what you said - about the Demondim-Spawn and the Haruchai esepecially - but Esmer seems also to have a huge role..

I predict he will have to make a choice about who he serves.. And also I think Linden should heal him with the Staff.. Or Anele's Staff..

Anele will have to play more of a role too - 'he is the last hope' etc.. So he'd beter start forgiving himself,accepting that what's done is done and start doing something constructive to aid the preservation of the Land..

I am not sure that the Ramen are in need of redemption - they simply live to serve the Ranhyn.

AS for the 'people of the Land' - the Stonedownors and Woodhelvinnin, Only those in Revelstone would understand enough to attempt anything to Preserve the Land, and until the Masters change their attitude they won't let them..

Linden is going to have to get rid of Kevin's Dirt for the rest of the people to have any chance of learning to defend themselves or the land, and I doubt she'll get around to dong that while Foul still has Roger..

But we'll see..

[Mortice Root]

Hmm.... I actually see a lack of opportunities for redemption thus far in the Last Chrons, at least as far as major characters go. And I think this sets the Last Chrons apart from SRD's other works.

I certainly agree that in almost all of his other works the need for redemption of one or more of the main protaganists was a driving force, and frequently it was one of the major themes. TC in the 1st Chrons; TC and Linden in the 2nd; Angus, Morn and Warden in the Gap; Brew in the mysteries; even Geraden and Terisa in Mordant, all were looking in some form or another for redemption.

But I don't see that theme present in the Last Chrons. Sure, the Haruchai or Elohim have that potential, but it's hard for me, as a reader, to care as much about the redemption of a race as I would about the redemption of an individual. Anele? Roger? Joan? Maybe, but they're all secondary characters and again don't connect as well as the primaries - so any redemption they gain would be secondary as well. TC? Well, he was pretty much at peace with himself by the end of WGW, and it's hard to imagine what crime he may have committed since, you know, being dead and all.

So that leaves Linden. But again, part of what made the end of WGW so moving was that both Linden and TC had achieved a sense of peace, of redemption within themselves. Has Linden done anything since that would require redemption? Founding a mental hospital? Nope. Adopting a special needs child? Nope, again. Giving Joan her ring back? Maybe, though that doesn't really seem to be bothering Linden that much. Letting her child be abducted? Again, maybe, but it's hard to see what she could have done differently.

Do we have, in the Last Chrons., a SRD story where there is no major protaganist in need of forgiveness or redemption, one of his almost universal themes? Well, maybe. Authors don't need to address the same themes in every book they write. And SRD has said (paraphrasing here) that the Last Chrons would be different and more comlex than his prior work. So maybe some of that is the removal of the redemption theme.

Or, maybe that theme will present itself later. I would argue that since we've spent so much time with Linden's thought processes that for a redemption to be worthwhile, it would have to center on her. Maybe she hasn't yet become a person that would need redemption, and that process is happening in front of us. This would be different. Usually SRD's main characters come to us "pre-damaged", and we learn about that emotional damage in flashback. This time we may be seeing the damage happen to Linden in "real time" vs in flashback. It would be similar to starting LFB after the birth of Roger, before the leprosy diagnosis. That would have been somewhat of a different narrative flow, and maybe that's what SRD is doing here.

[wayfriend]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Kevin. I'd be kind of sad if Kevin wasn't redeemed. Even dead, his ravings at Linden show that he's still pretty messed up. In the ROD thread, I've been thinking that he must have been insane. He's really a sympathetic character, and I hope that he's given a better salvation.

The Creator, too, needs redemption. He made his creation suffer, by casting Lord Foul into it. By all accounts, he's trying to make restitution.

The Viles? The viles are extinct. It's too late for their redemption. I think it is the ur-viles who need redemption. And the Waynhim. Yes, the ur-viles have changed their ways, and have been a big help. But I don't believe the Waynhim or the ur-viles will be redeemed until they gain something for their service. As dumb as it sounds, as made beings they are like Pinnochio, and deserve to be turned into real boys.

The Haruchai? I've said since Runes, Stave will lead them to redemption, or perhaps a better word is "sufficiency". They have not figured out the right way to serve since before the Bloodguard days. They've tried the Lords, they've tried the Ringweilder, they've tried Revelstone, but no form of service "suffices". I hope that they learn the proper expression of their fidelity before the end. I think Stave, in splitting with the others, has a chance to find something for the Haruchai, and bring it back to them, in a true heroic fashion.

The Elohim? They need no redemption, and deserve none, for they ask for none. They are what they are. If we cannot hold it against them for being who they are, then we cannot forgive them either.

Linden? She is desperate to find her son, in order to redeem herself in her own eyes for losing him. That's all she needs. However, after so many mysterious powerful entities have come to her and told her she's a disaster waiting to happen, it would be nice for her to get some validation.

Anele? It seems his path is to redeem himself and thereby remove his self-imposed insanity. He's been called the true hope of the Land, so all he needs to do is live up to it.

Esmer? Esmer needs peace, not redemption.

[Zarathustra]

.


The Elohim are another story. Their arrogance is inherent, and I believe they are candidates for paying the ultimate price. In effect, they are cowards, I’ve written in another thread that we may see the entire Elohim race Appointed (against their will, as was Findail’s fate) to power the new Arch of Time. While this means the destruction of them as a people, they will go on to serve a higher purpose.

This is a really cool idea. I'd love it if it's true. However, if it's done against their will, how is that redemption? Doesn't redemption (in SRD's sense) come from a character redeeming himself through his actions and choices? Also, being Appointed didn't seem to redeem Kastenessen very much. Just the opposite, in fact.

[Seppi2112]

Esmer? Esmer needs peace, not redemption.

Esmer needs death; I don't know what else will redeem him.

[MsMary]

Why do you say he needs death and that nothing else will redeem him?

[Seppi2112]

How can his essential contradiction be freed? Neither side will win and all he does is tear himself apart.

Can you think of any circumstance that ends well for him?

[MsMary]

I haven't really given it a lot of thought, yet, but it would be nice to see some solution for his dilemma.

[emotional leper]

...

...

...

Suicide?

[Seppi2112]

Esmer is one of my favorite characters so don't think I'm hating on him... I just don't see redemption without death.

[emotional leper]

Esmer is one of my favorite characters so don't think I'm hating on him... I just don't see redemption without death.

Why does he have to be redeemed at all?

[ninjaboy]

I don't know if there will be redemption, but by the end of this series Everyone will be either dead or profoundly changed. Also - should Kastanessen himself be killed, would that not leave Esmer with just one voice tellin' him what to do?