You mean to tell me they ALL died? All of them everywhere?

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You mean to tell me they ALL died? All of them everywhere?

Post by aTOMiC »

Every Lord.
Every Lord to be.
Every Unfettered everywhere.
Every Loremaster.
Every Lore student.
NONE of them managed to survive. All of them were killed either before or during the Ritual of Desecration.
THE only reference that survived was Kevin's wards.

If that was some part of Lord Foul's plan, to cause such complete and utter devastation, to inspire such despair that every last person that might have been a source of knowledge that could preserve the lore of the old lords beyond what Kevin designed for the post ROD world...that was pretty dad burned thorough.
Revelations of previously unknown beings revealed in the Last Chrons. notwithstanding you have to agree the extinction of the Land's defenders was as complete as Emperor Palpatine's attack on the Jedi order.
WOW.
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Post by Bran Pendragon »

Reminscient of a newly awakened Dave Lister (for you Red Dwarf fans out there). :)

The war had gone on for some time, and presumably part of the reason for Kevin's despair might have been that most of his allies had already been killed.
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Post by CovenantJr »

Bran Pendragon wrote:Reminscient of a newly awakened Dave Lister (for you Red Dwarf fans out there). :)

The war had gone on for some time, and presumably part of the reason for Kevin's despair might have been that most of his allies had already been killed.
They're all dead. Everybody's dead, Kev. :lol:
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Post by Fist and Faith »

I think that's the second post of yours I saw today that included "dad burned." Hmmm...
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Post by High Lord Tolkien »

Well, I think that initially there were those with lore; loremasters, students wood and stone people (i forget their titles) who left the Land with Kevin's warnings.
But they were in isolated groups away from the Land for centuries and many generations.
And it was said that those scattered groups retained only the lore that enabled them to survive.
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Post by Cheval »

Did the ROD effect the Land and it's surroundings,
or the whole world?
Maybe some students, Lords, or somebody happen to be away during that time
exploring and/or trading with others. (Except the Elohim... they have everything they want.)
Imagine the looks on their faces when the voyagers arrived back home - to total destruction!
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Post by Relayer »

It only affected the Land. Otherwise, the Giants, Ranyhyn/Ramen, Haruchai, along w/ other peoples like Bhrathair, etc would've been destroyed too.
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Post by Beyondthebreach »

I think it is safe to say that Morinmoss, Grimmerdhore and Garotting Deep were protected by the power of the Forestals.

This might also provide a plausable explanation to how people and creatures survived to repopulate the land. Since it is also vague on the length of time it took the Ritual to complete, it is possible that people were able to flee the land or find haven in a great forest. Was the Ritual instantaneous or did it take days to complete it it's entirety?
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Post by aTOMiC »

Fist and Faith wrote:I think that's the second post of yours I saw today that included "dad burned." Hmmm...

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA!!!! :biggrin:
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Post by iQuestor »

you gotta wonder, how did the new lords get their start? How did they know what to do? hwo did they learn of Earth Power, of Kevins Wards, of any history at all? Who was left to tell them of the ritual, or of Berek, Damelon, Loric?

perhaps the Giants relayed it when they came back?

Is this covered anywhere?
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Post by Menolly »

iQuestor wrote:you gotta wonder, how did the new lords get their start? How did they know what to do? hwo did they learn of Earth Power, of Kevins Wards, of any history at all? Who was left to tell them of the ritual, or of Berek, Damelon, Loric?

perhaps the Giants relayed it when they came back?

Is this covered anywhere?
Perhaps the Giants.

Perhaps in a similar way as Berek learned of Earthpower...
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Post by Unfettered One »

It was covered... The Giants (the Unhomed) brought Kevin's First Ward with them when they went to seek if anyone had returned to the Land. I believe this is in LFB.
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Post by wayfriend »

I'd feel certain that the First Ward included a history of the Old Lords. Almost anyone who teaches anything recognizes that it's important to talk about the history of the subject. So some of the restoration would have come directly from the Giants - stories are their bread and butter. And some from the First Ward.

Some could have come from the Bloodguard, should they be compelled to impart the information.

Revelstone itself was left standing. Although the First Ward was not left there, some history may have survived. Although the people of the Land were not reknowned for writing, there are other ways of preserving history. Consider the Berek Tapestry.
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Post by High Lord Tolkien »

What I find strange is that they needed the Giants to translate the 1st Ward!
Spoiler
The people of the Land even changed their language or at least certain pronounciations.
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Post by CovenantJr »

Unfettered One wrote:It was covered... The Giants (the Unhomed) brought Kevin's First Ward with them when they went to seek if anyone had returned to the Land. I believe this is in LFB.
Indeed it is.
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Post by amanibhavam »

High Lord Tolkien wrote:What I find strange is that they needed the Giants to translate the 1st Ward!
Spoiler
The people of the Land even changed their language or at least certain pronounciations.
I do not find it strange. Look what happened to the English language in the span of 1000 years.
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Post by CovenantJr »

Anyone tried to read the original text of Beowulf? I think the written (or spoken?) Wards would be similarly challenging.
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Post by amanibhavam »

A pity Covenant is not an expert in Old English... since he understands the people of the Land as speaking English, he would probably recognize the Wards as OE:)
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Post by aTOMiC »

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Well, I think that initially there were those with lore; loremasters, students wood and stone people (i forget their titles) who left the Land with Kevin's warnings.
But they were in isolated groups away from the Land for centuries and many generations.
And it was said that those scattered groups retained only the lore that enabled them to survive.
Okay so there were scattered groups. I suppose hardships had forced those people to remain in relatively small numbers and living outside the blast radius probably meant living in the Lower Land or in the Mountains or heaven knows where else.
But if there were lore wise people (above "user" level let's say) that had been training to become lords, who knew the protocol for such things, wouldn't they have attempted to preserve the old order of things even though Revelstone was off limits?
Imagine groups of dozens or hundreds following their training and establishing their own hierarchy. Even their own Lord's Council for their group. Or perhaps a group was lucky enough to have an unfettered one living among them that hadn't been killed in the war. That's the way they had being doing business. Perhaps they had people who were trained enough to become apprentices that, given they were the only ones available, were nominated for Lord status in their group. Imagine after the people began returning to the Land and having dozens of Lords from the south, north, east and west coming together instead of having to rely on Kevin's Wards. Sure the best of what was left probably wouldn't have been as mighty as Kevin and his ilk but certainly more powerful than the New Lords.
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Post by Unfettered One »

I would imagine it would be similar to what would happen here if there were some mass devastation that occurred.

All of a sudden, the knowledge of, let's say, computer programming would become less useful that, say, building houses. That skill would be lost.

If you extrapolate this out to the denizens of the Land pre-ROD, let’s say Stonedowners previously held knowledge of all lore; however, their exile was in the mountains, so they only preserved the rhadhamaerl, useful for living in mountains. Similarly, the lillianrill would have been preserved by the Woodhelvinin; perhaps they found shelter in the great forests.

Combine this with many generations of exile, and lots of lore would be lost. Also, the language would evolve. For that, look to the word usage of the British as opposed to America. Or, Massachusetts as opposed to Arkansas.
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