Has anyone read this? Can you give me any reasons to keep trying to not throw the book in the street and watch cars run over it?
Steven Erison even has a little endorsement thingy on the cover. I thought it'd be rad! But... it's not so rad and I can't get into it.
R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before
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Waddley
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R. Scott Bakker, The Darkness That Comes Before
"Let my inspiration flow in token rhyme, suggesting rhythm." -Robert Hunter
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I'm Murrin
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We did have a topic about the trilogy around here somewhere; I'll see if I can find it.
I'm a fan of the books--in particular the great characters of Kellhus, Achamian and Cnaiur. What is it that's putting you off?
IIRC (it was four years ago, so my memory's a little shaky) I found the first book slow to start, but it picks up as it goes along. The interplay between Kellhus and Cnaiur keeps it going, I think.
I'm a fan of the books--in particular the great characters of Kellhus, Achamian and Cnaiur. What is it that's putting you off?
IIRC (it was four years ago, so my memory's a little shaky) I found the first book slow to start, but it picks up as it goes along. The interplay between Kellhus and Cnaiur keeps it going, I think.
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Waddley
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I think it's just his use of language, but I can't put my finger quite on what bothers me. I've just never been so turned off from a book within the first 50 or so pages. But I'm going to try. And I'll check out the thread you so kindly bumped for me. 
"Let my inspiration flow in token rhyme, suggesting rhythm." -Robert Hunter
they have to endorse each other, Wadds, they're both canadians. (i believe)
at any rate, i've had the third book in the series since it came out and i still haven't read it.
i liked the first book and some of the ideas and characters in the story,
but the second book bored me silly.
if you want the 2nd and 3rd ones, i'll send them to you.
i was going to make Creator read them but...
yeesh it'll take him a year to get through Martin and Erikson so,
he doesn't need any further distractions from those MUST READS. hee.
at any rate, i've had the third book in the series since it came out and i still haven't read it.
i liked the first book and some of the ideas and characters in the story,
but the second book bored me silly.
if you want the 2nd and 3rd ones, i'll send them to you.
i was going to make Creator read them but...
yeesh it'll take him a year to get through Martin and Erikson so,
he doesn't need any further distractions from those MUST READS. hee.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
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I'm Murrin
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i am happy that you enjoyed it, murrin.
i did NOT find the language "rich"
i enjoy erikson much much much more.
i found bakker boring as compared to Erikson or Martin for that matter.
that being said, the bakker books are not BAD. i'm not saying he's a bad writer or that the books suck eggs. just saying they didn't do it for me.
i did NOT find the language "rich"
i enjoy erikson much much much more.
i found bakker boring as compared to Erikson or Martin for that matter.
that being said, the bakker books are not BAD. i'm not saying he's a bad writer or that the books suck eggs. just saying they didn't do it for me.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
-
Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 25493
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 9 times
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I'd still like to get to Bakker. But I've still got a lot of Malazan to read. I don't think I have anything to read immediately after that, so it could be Bakker.
But what's with the title? Is it a Seinfeld book or something?
But what's with the title? Is it a Seinfeld book or something?
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
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Farm Ur-Ted
- <i>Haruchai</i>
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Fifty pages isn't enough to get into it. I agree, the start is pretty rough. Around 150 pages or so, it starts to get real good. When I got through 200 pages (and maybe the first two sections), I actually went back and re-read the first 200 pages, because I knew that there was a ton of stuff that I didn't remember or understand. It was a good move. I liked book 1 and absolutely loved book 2, but I'm still pissed about book 3, enough so that I don't plan on reading anything else by Bakker.Waddley Hasselhoff wrote:I think it's just his use of language, but I can't put my finger quite on what bothers me. I've just never been so turned off from a book within the first 50 or so pages. But I'm going to try. And I'll check out the thread you so kindly bumped for me.
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[Syl]
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Heh. I got hooked at Borders on less than twenty pages or so. And though the third book was somewhat disappointing, it's also not the end, so...
The long parts in between dialogue and the more intense scenes always read like a very rich, very real history. So much so that I was reminded of Harold Lamb's Iron Men and Saints (since both books deal with crusades). I asked Scott about that on the Three Seas board, and he said he was indeed a Lamb devotee and was pleased that I saw the similarities. *shrug*
Combine the gritty, dark, and dirty realism with amazing characters like Drusas Achamian, Kellhus, and even Esmenet (who I just downright loathed by the end of the book), and I just don't see what there is not to like... other than the turn of events towards the end.
The long parts in between dialogue and the more intense scenes always read like a very rich, very real history. So much so that I was reminded of Harold Lamb's Iron Men and Saints (since both books deal with crusades). I asked Scott about that on the Three Seas board, and he said he was indeed a Lamb devotee and was pleased that I saw the similarities. *shrug*
Combine the gritty, dark, and dirty realism with amazing characters like Drusas Achamian, Kellhus, and even Esmenet (who I just downright loathed by the end of the book), and I just don't see what there is not to like... other than the turn of events towards the end.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
-George Steiner
of course, all that being said, i owe bakker a huge debt.
found Syl on the Three Seas board.
as you might imagine, he (syl) made pretty good mince meat
out of some of the more philospophical discussions over there.
heh. so...i owe bakker and syl for gettin me here.
and like i said, the books aren't bad, just didn't ring my chimes.
half the time i wasn't sure HE was sure what he was saying. and the second book lacked the brazen confidence of the first one even. it slogged to me. the pacing just wasn't hooking me.
but i did love drusas achamian and like esmi up to a point.
and i liked the whole dream/memory idea of the...whatever achamian's sect was called.
oh. i've just thought of how he described something that i liked VERY much. and i would have to concede a certain "richness" to the description.
alright, i've blathered on enough here to remember some things i did like.
which is good.
point conceded to murrin and syl. some rich description.
however, not enough for me to care about reading the third book.
i'd rather wait for erikson and...god help me....martin.
so...
i owe bakker for gettin me here.
ps. i need the space on my bookshelf
found Syl on the Three Seas board.
as you might imagine, he (syl) made pretty good mince meat
out of some of the more philospophical discussions over there.
heh. so...i owe bakker and syl for gettin me here.
and like i said, the books aren't bad, just didn't ring my chimes.
it was the grit i did like about it. but his prose seemed to ramble at times, like he wasn't in control of it. (if that makes sense to any of the writers out there)Syl wrote:Combine the gritty, dark, and dirty realism with amazing characters like Drusas Achamian, Kellhus, and even Esmenet (who I just downright loathed by the end of the book), and I just don't see what there is not to like... other than the turn of events towards the end.
half the time i wasn't sure HE was sure what he was saying. and the second book lacked the brazen confidence of the first one even. it slogged to me. the pacing just wasn't hooking me.
but i did love drusas achamian and like esmi up to a point.
and i liked the whole dream/memory idea of the...whatever achamian's sect was called.
oh. i've just thought of how he described something that i liked VERY much. and i would have to concede a certain "richness" to the description.
alright, i've blathered on enough here to remember some things i did like.
which is good.
point conceded to murrin and syl. some rich description.
however, not enough for me to care about reading the third book.
i'd rather wait for erikson and...god help me....martin.
so...
i'll send these to you. i have all three. you can have em or, if you don't like em, pay em forward to the next person who says they wanna read em.Fist and Faith wrote:I'd still like to get to Bakker. But I've still got a lot of Malazan to read. I don't think I have anything to read immediately after that, so it could be Bakker.
But what's with the title? Is it a Seinfeld book or something?
i owe bakker for gettin me here.
ps. i need the space on my bookshelf
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
-
Fist and Faith
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No thanks. I already have them. Just need to start reading 'em.Lucimay wrote:i'll send these to you. i have all three. you can have em or, if you don't like em, pay em forward to the next person who says they wanna read em.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
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duchess of malfi
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I think I must be the only person here who likes these books much better than Erikson's? Bakker, for depth and meatiness, is right up there with Donaldson, but has the addition of sex. 
I can see how they are not for everyone, given that the main male character is a manipulative and brilliant sociopath and the main female character is a prostitute, and many of the other characters are even more genuinely screwed up...but I love the books.
I am looking forward to the next Bakker book every bit as much as the next Martin and Donaldson books.
I can see how they are not for everyone, given that the main male character is a manipulative and brilliant sociopath and the main female character is a prostitute, and many of the other characters are even more genuinely screwed up...but I love the books.
I am looking forward to the next Bakker book every bit as much as the next Martin and Donaldson books.
Love as thou wilt.
Amen Duchess! I love these books as much as Donaldson and Martin. Rich, dense, philosophical and very dark and gritty. I've read the first 4 books of Erickson and although I think they are decent fantasy I don't think they compare to Bakker. Just my opinion.
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
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Darujhistan
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I really don't see why people want to give up on superior fantasy like this so quickly, i actually thought the opening was very well written. Do people really need to have everything explained and made clear after 100 pages?
The politicking and the historical background added a lot of richness IMO. I'm actually going to re-read TDTCB and then finish the series right after.
The politicking and the historical background added a lot of richness IMO. I'm actually going to re-read TDTCB and then finish the series right after.
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Fist and Faith
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Darujhistan
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Fist and Faith
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Um... What??? I'm doing the exact same thing! There was just too much going on for me to go on. I needed a much better understanding of it before I felt safe going on. I'm less than a hundred pages from the end of my second run through MoI. I'll begin my 2nd HoC reading tomorrow or Monday. Then move on to MT.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest -Paul Simon