Kevin's Watch

Has anyone read this? Can you give me any reasons to keep trying to not throw the book in the street and watch cars run over it?

Steven Erison even has a little endorsement thingy on the cover. I thought it'd be rad! But... it's not so rad and I can't get into it.

We did have a topic about the trilogy around here somewhere; I'll see if I can find it.

I'm a fan of the books--in particular the great characters of Kellhus, Achamian and Cnaiur. What is it that's putting you off?

IIRC (it was four years ago, so my memory's a little shaky) I found the first book slow to start, but it picks up as it goes along. The interplay between Kellhus and Cnaiur keeps it going, I think.

I think it's just his use of language, but I can't put my finger quite on what bothers me. I've just never been so turned off from a book within the first 50 or so pages. But I'm going to try. And I'll check out the thread you so kindly bumped for me.

they have to endorse each other, Wadds, they're both canadians. (i believe)

at any rate, i've had the third book in the series since it came out and i still haven't read it.

i liked the first book and some of the ideas and characters in the story,
but the second book bored me silly.
if you want the 2nd and 3rd ones, i'll send them to you.
i was going to make Creator read them but...
yeesh it'll take him a year to get through Martin and Erikson so,
he doesn't need any further distractions from those MUST READS. hee.

The prose is a little dense. Some of the style is based off Homer--he even lifts a few metaphors directly from the Iliad--and it's quite... rich (for lack of a better word).

i am happy that you enjoyed it, murrin.

i did NOT find the language "rich"

i enjoy erikson much much much more.

i found bakker boring as compared to Erikson or Martin for that matter.

that being said, the bakker books are not BAD. i'm not saying he's a bad writer or that the books suck eggs. just saying they didn't do it for me.

Yeah, I don't think you have to worry about sending them to me, Luc. I'll get through this one. If i love it then I'll let you know. If I don't, I'll just go back to my re-read of TC

Thanks Sunshine

I'd still like to get to Bakker. But I've still got a lot of Malazan to read. I don't think I have anything to read immediately after that, so it could be Bakker.

But what's with the title? Is it a Seinfeld book or something?

Waddley Hasselhoff wrote:I think it's just his use of language, but I can't put my finger quite on what bothers me. I've just never been so turned off from a book within the first 50 or so pages. But I'm going to try. And I'll check out the thread you so kindly bumped for me.

Fifty pages isn't enough to get into it. I agree, the start is pretty rough. Around 150 pages or so, it starts to get real good. When I got through 200 pages (and maybe the first two sections), I actually went back and re-read the first 200 pages, because I knew that there was a ton of stuff that I didn't remember or understand. It was a good move. I liked book 1 and absolutely loved book 2, but I'm still pissed about book 3, enough so that I don't plan on reading anything else by Bakker.

Heh. I got hooked at Borders on less than twenty pages or so. And though the third book was somewhat disappointing, it's also not the end, so...

The long parts in between dialogue and the more intense scenes always read like a very rich, very real history. So much so that I was reminded of Harold Lamb's Iron Men and Saints (since both books deal with crusades). I asked Scott about that on the Three Seas board, and he said he was indeed a Lamb devotee and was pleased that I saw the similarities. *shrug*

Combine the gritty, dark, and dirty realism with amazing characters like Drusas Achamian, Kellhus, and even Esmenet (who I just downright loathed by the end of the book), and I just don't see what there is not to like... other than the turn of events towards the end.

Disliked Esmi but actually found her to be a good character. Couldn't stand Kellhus. I am rooting Akka on like a fanboy. I want him to turn into another Seswatha, which is unlikely considering how incredibly old he'll be during the aspect emperor books (unless magic slows aging in these books).

of course, all that being said, i owe bakker a huge debt.
found Syl on the Three Seas board.
as you might imagine, he (syl) made pretty good mince meat
out of some of the more philospophical discussions over there.
heh. so...i owe bakker and syl for gettin me here.
and like i said, the books aren't bad, just didn't ring my chimes.

Syl wrote:Combine the gritty, dark, and dirty realism with amazing characters like Drusas Achamian, Kellhus, and even Esmenet (who I just downright loathed by the end of the book), and I just don't see what there is not to like... other than the turn of events towards the end.

it was the grit i did like about it. but his prose seemed to ramble at times, like he wasn't in control of it. (if that makes sense to any of the writers out there)
half the time i wasn't sure HE was sure what he was saying. and the second book lacked the brazen confidence of the first one even. it slogged to me. the pacing just wasn't hooking me.
but i did love drusas achamian and like esmi up to a point.

and i liked the whole dream/memory idea of the...whatever achamian's sect was called.

oh. i've just thought of how he described something that i liked VERY much. and i would have to concede a certain "richness" to the description.
alright, i've blathered on enough here to remember some things i did like.
which is good.
point conceded to murrin and syl. some rich description.

however, not enough for me to care about reading the third book.
i'd rather wait for erikson and...god help me....martin.

so...

Fist and Faith wrote:I'd still like to get to Bakker. But I've still got a lot of Malazan to read. I don't think I have anything to read immediately after that, so it could be Bakker.

But what's with the title? Is it a Seinfeld book or something?

i'll send these to you. i have all three. you can have em or, if you don't like em, pay em forward to the next person who says they wanna read em.
i owe bakker for gettin me here.

ps. i need the space on my bookshelf

however, not enough for me to care about reading the third book.
i'd rather wait for erikson and...god help me....martin.

I have to say, while I do like bakker a lot he doesn't compare to erikson for me.

I don't think 3 seas is an incredible site but I don't think it's trash either.

Lucimay wrote:i'll send these to you. i have all three. you can have em or, if you don't like em, pay em forward to the next person who says they wanna read em.

No thanks. I already have them. Just need to start reading 'em.

I think I must be the only person here who likes these books much better than Erikson's? Bakker, for depth and meatiness, is right up there with Donaldson, but has the addition of sex.

I can see how they are not for everyone, given that the main male character is a manipulative and brilliant sociopath and the main female character is a prostitute, and many of the other characters are even more genuinely screwed up...but I love the books.

I am looking forward to the next Bakker book every bit as much as the next Martin and Donaldson books.

Amen Duchess! I love these books as much as Donaldson and Martin. Rich, dense, philosophical and very dark and gritty. I've read the first 4 books of Erickson and although I think they are decent fantasy I don't think they compare to Bakker. Just my opinion.

I really don't see why people want to give up on superior fantasy like this so quickly, i actually thought the opening was very well written. Do people really need to have everything explained and made clear after 100 pages?

The politicking and the historical background added a lot of richness IMO. I'm actually going to re-read TDTCB and then finish the series right after.

I expect we'll be seeing a bit of you in the Erikson forum, eh?

Fist and Faith wrote:I expect we'll be seeing a bit of you in the Erikson forum, eh?

Indeed!


I've read GOTM thru HOC and rather than read MT, i'm re-reading the first four books before continuing. It's really pleasurable to go back to the start of this series.

Um... What??? I'm doing the exact same thing! There was just too much going on for me to go on. I needed a much better understanding of it before I felt safe going on. I'm less than a hundred pages from the end of my second run through MoI. I'll begin my 2nd HoC reading tomorrow or Monday. Then move on to MT.