IC Esselmont's Return of the Crimson Guard
Moderators: lucimay, Onos T'oolan
- aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
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Agreed. We need to get a serious discussion of DoD going here.
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
- Onos T'oolan
- First Sword
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- I'm Murrin
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dude. you shoulda finished earlier!
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
- I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
Now that I'm experiencing close up together the comparison, there is a world of difference between Erikson and Esselmont's writing. Esselmont is competent, and his storylines are compelling enough, but wow, the gap in skill is bigger than I realised.
Erikson's work is so much richer, denser with meaning, and he spends much more time on setting the scenes, providing potent images as well as the straight up action and event. More poignant, more compelling, more involving... it's so much easier to get sucked in by the story. And he's much better at tantalising the reader with hints while still keeping them in the dark.
Erikson's work is so much richer, denser with meaning, and he spends much more time on setting the scenes, providing potent images as well as the straight up action and event. More poignant, more compelling, more involving... it's so much easier to get sucked in by the story. And he's much better at tantalising the reader with hints while still keeping them in the dark.
as i said elsewhere, i just find esselmont's a grittier (that is to say more direct with sparser language) style, which i like.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
- aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
- Posts: 17865
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:50 pm
- Location: NOT opening up a restaurant in Santa Fe
Working through Night of Knives now. Very much a journeyman volume, I thought.
I dunno, Luci -- I think Erikson's a better writer than Esslemont. But ymmv.
I dunno, Luci -- I think Erikson's a better writer than Esslemont. But ymmv.
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
well all these thread are running together now so i don't know which one it was that i said it but i did SAY i think erikson is the better writer, but i LIKE esselmont's style just as well. and since they both take place in the same world, i don't find esselmonts style jarringly not as good, just different.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
- aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
- Posts: 17865
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:50 pm
- Location: NOT opening up a restaurant in Santa Fe
Yeah, I found that post after I posted my post above. Post. Above. Post. Thing.lucimay wrote:well all these thread are running together now so i don't know which one it was that i said it
I think I need a nap.
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
- Holsety
- The Gap Into Spam
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I think there are a few occasions where we see her in BH. I think there's one where Kalam, T'Avore and T'Amber meet the empress, and then she shows up one or two more times during the fight in Unta Harbor in conversation with Pearl, Mallick and Korbolo.I guess I haven't seen enough of her to form an opinion about her deviousness, or lack of it. I s'pose if I'd read NoK, I'd know more, yes? In Erikson's books, tho, really we've only seen Laseen three times (that I can think of): at the very beginning of "Gardens of the Moon" when she speaks to an extremely young Ganoes; when somebody -- was it Paran? -- makes that somewhat embarrassing command appearance before the Empress; and then when Kalaam goes after her to kill her (and even *then* we don't actually see her because she's not really there).
Ya. I guess this was hinted at by Erikson saying that Ryll had mastered the arts of Soletaken and D'ivers - he's in a very different situation than most others. This Ryllandaras is a lot more reminiscent of Treach in MoI who didn't even seem to be fully aware of himself until right before he died. One of the posters on the Malazan Forum, when discussing this, said something like:Firstly, didn't Ryllandaras appear in Deadhouse Gates as about 6-8 Jackals (some of which were killed)? I assume that the one portion of him in Li Heng is unhinged and seperate, kind of like Ho is the sane part while his "brothers" are all mad. But I seem to remember noone being surprised by Ryllandaras the D'ivers roaming around Seven Cities.
In MoI, Treach specifically states that Ryllandaras had gone farther than all of them, in mastering the gifts: BOTH soletaken and d'ivers. Therefore, if we put 1 + 1 together, Quon Tali Ryllandaras is the soletaken aspect of Ryllandaras (who Ryl put all his madness into) while moving away to 7 Cities Ryllandars. He is both "white jackal" and "ay'tog" according to Treach. The White Jackal makes sense as RotCG Ryllandaras while DG Ryllanadars makes sense as ay'tog, yes?
To me, the biggest difference is that the T'lan seem tortured by their vow at this point. They are ready to see it end. Doesn't seem like all the Guard have the same perspective atm.The Crimson Guard's vow was being compared quite a lot with that of the T'lan Imass. It is the same thing, essentially - they will continue to persist so long as the Empire does, jsut as the T'lan exist until the Jaghut (or, Tyrants in general, thanks to Silverfox's unwillingness to release them in MoI) are gone. K'azz is already on the path to the dessicated, undead form they'll all eventually take from having lived so long. The book also hints at us that Edgewalker is bound by his own Vow.
As for my own view of the book... my favorite POVs in this book belonged to Hurl and Nait, my least favorite was Kyle once he broke off from the CG. I think that Esslemont does soldiers better than Erikson, other than that I think Erikson is better.
EDIT-Also, don't expect to have DoD for a pretty long time.
- I'm Murrin
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My half-arsed review.
(Half arsed because I didn't give it much thought, didn't go into much detail, and even managed to miss some stuff out I should've mentioned.)
(Half arsed because I didn't give it much thought, didn't go into much detail, and even managed to miss some stuff out I should've mentioned.)
- aliantha
- blueberries on steroids
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A good wrapup nevertheless.
EZ Board Survivor
"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
yeah you should do that for a living murrin!
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
yeah see i like to have had a cow when i read it!!
who IS that smarmy little man who's taking over the empire???
who IS that smarmy little man who's taking over the empire???
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
no honestly, he like...came out of nowhere. (from what i remember anyway)
almost finished with NoK. i'll reread RotCG again when i'm finished
and try to have a decent conversation with you about it.
almost finished with NoK. i'll reread RotCG again when i'm finished
and try to have a decent conversation with you about it.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
- I'm Murrin
- Are you?
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2003 1:09 pm
- Location: North East, UK
- Contact:
see! yeah...i've read bonehunters twice or 3 times, but DG and HoC are the ones i've only read once (i think)
but...
and i know you were just being *informative* (not trying to be disdainful and shame me because i can't remember) but..
maybe you could have just synopsized who he is, cause obviously
i don't remember. as i said it was an honest question. not
rhetorical.
kinda like this..."oh yeah he's the guy who in DG did blah blah blah to so and so" or "he's the guy in HoC who poured his tea on the cat" or some such thing.
it's great that you can remember every character in every book murrin and relate all the events and see the entire big picture. i'm envious that you can. cause i can't. so...
who the f*k is he?
but...
and i know you were just being *informative* (not trying to be disdainful and shame me because i can't remember) but..
maybe you could have just synopsized who he is, cause obviously
i don't remember. as i said it was an honest question. not
rhetorical.
kinda like this..."oh yeah he's the guy who in DG did blah blah blah to so and so" or "he's the guy in HoC who poured his tea on the cat" or some such thing.
it's great that you can remember every character in every book murrin and relate all the events and see the entire big picture. i'm envious that you can. cause i can't. so...
who the f*k is he?
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~