Where did coursers come from?

[Lumikant]

Where did coursers come from. I always imagined that they are sunbane warped Raynhin. It has recently been brought up that perhaps they were created from Horses using lore. With the power in coursers though, i would be pressed to say that if they were to have come from Horses that were changed by lore, it still wouldave been the Raynhin.

[danlo]

The Glossary defines a Courser as: a beast made by the Clave by the power of the Sunbane. Well that doesn't tell us much, Hmmm, let's c-where do we 1st learn of Coursers?--TWL, of course, but where do we 1st c 1 up close is it when the party reaches Crystal Stonedown and rescues Hollian? Well @ least that's someplace 2 start, but I seem 2 remember it was Memla na-Mhoram-in who 1st explained how they were made--is that right? Covenant is the 1st 2 run in2 Memla as he ran out of gas in the chapt. Blood-Speed: oh ok, Lumikant this may be the initial passage that makes 1 think they r perverted Ranyhyn:

pg. 290 It had the face and fangs of a saber-tooth, but it's long body resembled that of a horse--a horse with shoulders as high as the top of it's head, a back big enough 2 carry six people...

Jeez, I can't find it in that chapt. If it's explained @ all it must b btween when they escape from Revelstone 2 the Plain of Fire--if it's explained anywhere--I'll keep looking. Funny how Coursers were never fully discussed on the old Forum...

[Lumikant]

Anything that powerful would have to come from Raynhin stock.

[amanibhavam]

well, perverted horses, maybe, but personally I hope they (I mean the Clave) never got around to pervert a Ranyhyn, not even saw one...
if I ever finish the now sadly abandoned Mhoram's Last Quest story, it will surely contain an episode describing Mhoram finding the Great Horses in the South and managing so that they would never be found by evil powers...

[danlo]

B4 i went 2 bed last nite I scaned the 2nd 1/2 of TWL 4 any and all references 2 Coursers and, so far, apparently no 1 says anything about them xcept they r creatures formed of the Sunbane--no wonder the old discussion pages didn't talk that much about them...

[Quaan]

i personally dont think that they came from ranyhyn. somewhere in TWL they mention that the ramen saw the sunbane for what it was as soon as it hit the Land and fled to the south. i think the coursers probably came along after the sunbane became more "full blown" so to speak. if anything they were probably from horses. if ranyhyn were being warped like that i dont think the ramen would have stood for it and i am sure there would have been a war or some major conflict when they decided it was time to put a stop to it.
just my 2 cents

[Lauralin]

Regarding the fate of the Ranyhyn, in TWL, chapter "Soothtell" it says:

"He understood what had become of the Ranyhyn, the great horses, ant the Ramen who served them. Perciving the ill of the Sunbane at it's earliest apperiences, both Ranyhyn and Ramen had simply fled the Land, sogourning south along the marge of the Sunbirth Sea in search of safer grasslands"

I take that to mean that all of the Ranyhyn probably escaped the effects of the Sunbane before it had a chance to warp them.

The Coursers might have come from horses, maybe some Kresh too for the saber tooth effect (Ur-Viles did ride them). In TPTP Foul warps giant octapus like things to be able to crush stone buildings using the Illearth Stone, and whatever they came from probably wasn't anything like the stone crushing monsters they came to be; maybe Foul and Gibbon could get similer effects with the Banefire. I don't think that a creature nessesarily had to have alot of Earthpower to begin with like the Ranyhyn for Foul to be able to warp them into something like the Coursers.

[Lumikant]

Thanks for clearing that up. So maybe a mix of kresh and horse?

[danlo]

I stated in the Foul as Goodie page that I believed that most of the Raynhyn went south, btw thanx Quann/Lauralin 4 backing me up! Perhaps SRD may expand the Land 2 where they went in the south and what other refugees they and the Ramen may have joined forces w/2 survive there and how they might b reintroduced in2 various story lines in the 3rd Chrons...

[arwenavery]

turns anyone in the path of its first rays into a vile beast ...now out of curiosity ...maybe im missing something in the books ...if a person was already warped by the sunbane could they become more warped ????

if they caught the first rays again ??? could they become more evil ????

very vague question but it just came to me!

[Skyweir]

I concur with the thoughts that the Raynhin and the Ramen escaped to safer grasslands much farther south as stated in TWL ... as quoted by Lauralin ..

Amy that would be an excellent inclusion if Mhoram warned the Ramen and Raynhin of the future danger to them and led them to safer climes .. he may well have regained his oracular powers .. and had the tragic yet sublime experience of recapturing that once lost 'gift'..

When you get time to continue .. please continue Mhoram's last Quest here .. it is a fine work and one that was so well written that I found entirely engaging and really miss your posting re: this.

I tend to feel likewise that the sunbane was capable of warping anything into the vilest of creatures and the clave with all the power of the sunbane and its evil could 'create' the coursers .. warping them from quite possibly kresh/horses .. or even from you name it??

[Hearthcoal]

How could I have forgotten about coursers?

Nom gets so much attention, and rightly so. But coursers!

In spite of their being a result of the Sun Bane, I like them. I sure wouldn't mind having one for a partner. (Some how I don't think they'd make good pets. But then, which animal in TCTC 1 or 2 really would?)

[danlo]

I think Seasauce would b VERY jealous!!!

[Hearthcoal]

Well, he could have one of his own, and that would make us even.

- Hearthcoal

[JD]

Didn't the Haruchai say that the Ranyhyn escaped to the south?


JD

[Tohrm]

I don't believe so, but I will have to check it out. But I happen to agree that It would be nice if SRD 'checks out' more of the continent in the 3rd chrons. Plus bring in some 'new' people from the outer edges of the land. Maybe even a couple of original stonedowners and woodhelvenin communities that were out beyond the reach of the sunbane and clave.

[Skyweir]

yes I hope so too! We/I tend to overlook the fact that the sunbane was not a universal problem in the Land but was limited to a defined area .. as the questors discovered when they moved beyond its reach ..

so maybe it is safe to assume .. (if it is ever) .. that there were infact some communities that remained intact 'untouched' by the sunbane! The haruchai, the giants and the waynhin as races were an example of this .. as compared to the stonedowners within the sunbane had become changed .. and lost their lore .. etc .. etc..

So the Ramen and the Raynhin may well have also escaped the affects of the sunbane ..

[Tohrm]

Lumikant stated what I think might be an essential truth which I will attempt to expound upon. And I will finish it with a question of my own. The sunbane warped all creatures that were not protected by stone when the sun arose. The kresh, being a wily race of 'superwolves' would still have been affected by it. But with the power of the clave, they could have been very easily warped to suit the needs of the clave. All it would have taken was a conscious effort on the part of the raver that was running the show. It was known that the coursers were creatures of the sunbane, but so was Marid and the people of that stonedown that had been hit by the grim. They were no longer human, but warped creatures. Now here is the question that I have. When LA re-affirmed the strength of the law in the land, or rather redirected it in the direction that it had been perverted from, did all creatures of the sunbane disappear? Or did they continue on until their normal lifespans reached their end? Could anybody imagine the coursers and the Ranyhyn co-existing side by side with the Ramen tending them both? Without the power of the clave forcing them to do the riders' bidding, could they have been a somewhat docile creature despite their fearsome appearance ?

[danlo]

Or could they go completely mad!!!?

[Tohrm]

That is a possibility as well, at least in the case of the coursers. The other sunbane warped people already were!